A common response is how welcoming and supportive the mystery/thriller community is to newcomers. For a group that murders on a regular basis, where actually quite kind. On Wednesday, Mike Lawson mentioned the need for self-promotion as being a somewhat unwelcome surprise. I would second the vote for the inclusive nature of fellow writers, but I also have another surprise to add. I was surprised how much being published didn't change the work itself: It didn't get easier! Each book presents its own challenges and having a contract and an editor don't change that.
What about the rest of the Reds? What has surprised you most about (or since) becoming a published author?
HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: Huh. Interesting. Of course, as you say, the enthusiasm and congeniality of my colleagues. Astonishing. AND the wonderful people at events. I am constantly delighted with the level of welcome I receive. But I wasn't surprised about the personal pressure to consistently be better, or the intense need to hurry hurry hurry. The level of how much stuff there is to do, though, is really incredible. I have massive to-do lists, and they grow and grow. This is not in the nature of a complaint, by any means--but the work that accompanies the writing is endless. Ah--I hope it's endless, right?
HALLIE EPHRON: I kept thinking it would get easier, but it hasn't. Not for me, at least. At Sleuthfest this week Andrew Gross talked about how, as a writer you're harvesting your own experiences, and soon you run out of the low-hanging fruit. So true. That's one reason it gets harder -- you don't want to repeat yourself. But also, as Hank says, you keep raising the bar on yourself.
RHYS BOWEN: Oh, how I agree with the warmth and generosity of the mystery community. I think all of us have developed real and close friendships among writers who should have been considered our rivals. And I agree too that it doesn't get easier. I am not an outliner and the first fifty pages of every book I write find me in pure panic mode. And the stakes seem to get higher with each book, especially after one wins a few awards. Each book has to be better or at least as good as the one before. It's a challenge after 40 books to make the next one fresh and exciting.
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| The Reds, prepping to write each day |
DEBORAH CROMBIE: I was not surprised by the amount of self promotion--I'd been well-prepared by published friends and mentors. BUT, I could never, in the early nineties, have anticipated social media and the presence required there! Nor did I anticipate the sheer amount of non-writing work involved with being a writer. Or the fact that books just keep getting harder, or at least they do for me. As Hallie mentioned, trying not to repeat yourself becomes a big issue.
But on the very plus side, although I'd learned pretty early that writers were generally a friendly bunch, I continue to be amazed by the strength and generosity of the mystery community. I wouldn't trade it for anything!
JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: Since I agree and would repeat everything already said, may I mention money? Don't worry, I'm not going to mention figures, but after hearing time after time after time that it's impossible to make a living as an author, it was a happy surprise to discover I could, in fact, support myself (and the family) as a novelist.
The stories about financially successful writers always seem to focus around the blazing "It" debut of the year whose author got a $600,000 advance, or it's someone who's an international bestseller with a TV show/movie spin-off. You seldom see stories about authors like, well, many of us - people who write popular books year after year (well, not me, obvs., but the rest of you do!) growing their readership until sales and advances reach the point where they don't need a day job.
When I talk to young people, that's one of the key messages I try to get across - you CAN make a living as an artist.
I guess I am surprised to hear you say . . . well, Jenn said . . . how little input you have with the actual publication of the book you’ve written. I’d think you’d at least get to have some say about the cover for your book. Is that because everything is compartmentalized in the publishing world?
ReplyDeleteDespite the obstacles and difficulties and frustrations, may I just say that I am glad each of the Jungle Red Writers ladies keeps writing such wonderful stories for us to treasure and enjoy . . . .
Hugs, Joan -- and on influence, this is why writers need literary agents. Any "pull" you have should be negotiated into the contract. Harder to do these days unless you're already a best seller.
DeleteYes, Julia, you CAN make a living as an artist, and I am encouraged to hear that good writers like the Reds can get decent money for your fabulous books. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it!
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Gigi and Joan - so glad that you guys are here to brighten up my morning every day. Also, happy that there are at least some monetary benefits. I worry about many authors who I love, but not every author can make millions every year. I started a mystery book group when I worked at the Austin Public Library. Even though I do it as a volunteer now, we've been meeting for over 10 years. We've read and certainly talked about many of you and your books. I told them in the beginning that I want to introduce them to a wide range of books and authors - not just the ones the library buys 100 copies of per book. It's been a wonderful experience. Keep 'em coming - we'll keep reading.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Kay! Your book group members are lucky to have you!
DeleteWell, I can't speak to publishing books and the surprises that come with that.
ReplyDeleteBut now that I've been writing reviews of books, I am surprised how much better my writing COULD be.
When I send off my first draft review, I think that I've done a pretty good job at crafting the review.
And then the edits come back and I think, "Damn, I didn't realize I was this bad at getting my point across."
Thankfully, the edits (with some tweaks from me to make sure the work still has my "voice") almost always makes my work sound better. Which is the whole point, right?
By the way, my latest review just went online (after being printed in the latest issue of Mystery Scene). If you'd like, you can check it out here: https://www.mysteryscenemag.com/26-reviews/books/5992-head-wounds
Going to check it out right now, Jay... I subscribe to MS!
DeleteThere are aspiring writers out there who can't do what you did, which is HEAR criticism. And they don't understand why publishers don't want to work with them.
Hallie's right on. My advice to aspiring writers is a twist on the Churchill quote: "never, never, never, never give up, unless you're unwilling to receive feedback." If you can't hear and process criticism, writing/publishing is not for you.
DeleteIn a way, it stinks when you get edited or get critiqued I'm sure. When you turn something in that passed muster with you, how could anyone think it isn't quite right?
DeleteBut I look at it this way, they want my work but they also want it to be of the highest possible quality so that their magazine is looked upon the same way. And since they are paying me, I've got no problem taking on the constructive criticism to make my words come into the world in a far better manner than I would do if I just wrote any old thing.
Hallie, I pick up a copy of MS each time it is published, but I get it at my local magazine shop.
Thank you for the hard work you do to bring us the stories we love to read. I've often wondered how much non-writing work is involved in being a writer and the Reds' input to this post makes clear just how much of that work there is. I, for one, appreciate the access I have to you all through social media - I feel like I know you a little bit as women, as people, and that makes reading your books all the more fun. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Amanda. Sometimes with social media, it's hard to know if you're actually connecting with anyone out there in the ether...glad to hear that we are!
DeleteI think none of your responses surprise me, except Julia's. The 'low-hanging' fruit is a great image! Writing IS hard work. And no, it doesn't get easier (it just looks that way to us readers). But all you hear about in terms of money are the people who get that huge advance and you assume everyone on the NYT's list is raking in the millions. Knowing that you can pursue your life's calling AND earn a living from it, is great news! Because I think any kind of artist has a 'calling'--and to stifle that--because you're told you'll never earn a living--is a tragedy.
ReplyDeleteJay that is such a great observation—yes, the power of a good editor is immense . I rely on mine, and so look forward to our collaboration.
ReplyDeleteHank,
DeleteI do love dealing with the editor who works on my reviews. She is definitely making me better.
I laughed seeing "low-hanging fruit," because I heard that expression all the time at work, as we debated which features to include in the next release of a product. But it makes a lot of sense to think of the first novel as the one that pulls in a lot of what you've been thinking about over a period of time, and subsequent novels as requiring digging deeper. It astounds me how y'all keep coming up with new ideas. Do you think writing a series makes that easier (you've got a familiar foundation on which to hang your new ideas) or harder (if you think of something radically different, how do you work it in)?
ReplyDeleteI've written both, and they each of their challenges. I do know that standalones (Blogger just tried to spell check this and change it to scandalous) take me longer.
DeleteAs an author with her first published mystery I was surprised by how wonderful I feel when a reader gets my book and then takes the time to let me know. But there are other things that I thought I knew but still surprised me. Like how hard it is to get a book noticed in the mystery world, like how much fun it is to hear readers discuss your characters as if they're old friends.
DeleteJim, I think that the "Tyranny of a series," as I've heard it referred to, is that you have the familiar foundation, but you can't stray too far from it or readers get upset. I'm glad to hear Hallie say that her standalones take longer--mine definitely is!
DeleteYes to so much of what all the Reds have said (although the "making a living" part remains elusive).
ReplyDeleteI'm continually amazed by the volatility of the publishing world. My first publisher closed its doors just before #2 was ready to be released, and the struggle to find a new one was even more daunting than the first. Plus all the horror stories I hear about the same - or worse! - happening with agents, and editors, and...phew!
No wonder we murder people. ;-)
That's an excellent point, Cyndi. And if not the Publishing House itself closing, there is a great deal of volatility among the people working in the field. I can't count how many authors I have known who have lost their editor, publicist, or imprint.
DeleteI had no expectations when I launched BOLO Books. I simply wanted to talk about the books I love and share my passion for reading. So it was a bit of a surprise with how quickly the whole thing took off. Of course, looking back on it, I see that I had laid the groundwork for that years previously - by attending conventions regularly. It really is about the community. It probably doesn't hurt that I am genuinely a kind gentleman who rarely lets my bad moods affect others.
ReplyDeleteNow, had I known the level of work that would go into running something like BOLO Books on my own, I may have made different choices (no, not really). But there is tons of work beyond the actual reviewing. I am constantly surprised by the fight some publishers give me over getting an advanced copy of a book - look, I understood it in the early days, but at this point, I shouldn't have to ask you multiple times for a copy of a book. (And note, it's never the authors, they are working side by side with me to get those books into my hands, but publishers occasionally have some other "plan" in mind). Fortunately, again, connections with publicists, marketing folks, and the authors themselves have helped to facilitate what I am able to cover on the blog.
Based on the Raven Award honor, I suppose it all worked out the way it was meant to.
It sure did, Kristopher! One of the endless mysteries to me is the dynamic between booksellers and the publisher. If I mention to my publisher that there wasn't enough stock at an event, they blame it on the bookstore. The bookstore always blames the publisher. Hmmm...
DeleteWow. Yes, so many pluses, so many of the same surprises. For me, I love being on social media, and I have to be careful I'm not on there TOO much. One thing that surprised me - but probably shouldn't - was how long it takes to develop a career as a mystery author. Royalty statements and payments have a huge lag time. It takes time for the word to spread about your books, your writing. I've had books out for six years and I kind of feel like I'm just getting started.
ReplyDeleteWe have just (finally), been finishing up our estate planning. My older son has agreed to take over "literary executor" duties if it should come to pass, and the way stuff rolls in, he might be taking on a lot for years. Must caution him about that when I see him next week and make sure he's still able (which of course he is) and willing.
Good point, Edith! Writers need a literary trust or executor to make decisions about our work after we die. We set up the literary trust when we set up our family trust
DeleteThe lag time is a really good point, Edith. Nothing happens in an instant! You're one of the few writers who have said they love being on social media. I think you're a rare breed!
DeleteEdith is amazing -- and so active in her community as well.
DeleteI know that I appreciate the authors being on social media. It lets me interact with them on a tiny scale since there are so many that I don't get to go see at a book signing.
DeleteI can imagine how difficult it must be for a literary executor. Hell, just being the executor for my mom's estate is a pain the the butt.
I've just thought of another surprise: when our books have made a difference!
ReplyDeleteI've had so many letters telling me that my books helped through chemo, or the death of a loved one, or the woman who read the Riyal Spyness books all night in a shelter while her house flooded
This feels so humbling and wonderful
Those notes are the best! My favorite is from a reader who said, "I love your books. I'm 95. Write faster!"
DeleteSo true! My mom and I shared a love of reading--and would pass books back and forth. When she was in the hospital for the last time--I would bring in books and read to her. One day I noticed that the hospital cleaning person was mopping the same spot on the floor, over and over. She was listening as I read the story to my mom--I thought then that three people's lives had been enriched in those moments--my mom--who had a respite from her pain, the staff member--who had a mini-break from her chore, and me--and all thanks to the person who sat and worked away to make that story come alive.
DeleteThat's a lovely story, Flora. What a sweet moment the three of you shared!
DeleteLovely story, Flora, and Rhys, I, too, have been surprised by all the letters from readers saying that the books have got them through a difficult time. It's very humbling.
DeleteI've had those kinds of notes, too, Rhys. Makes it all seem worthwhile!
DeleteIt IS a humbling experience to go through the editing process. That was only the first of many surprises to me.
ReplyDeleteMy books were all written in the 90's, and they were nonfiction, but I was floored to see how little promotion the publisher did for the one that was commercially produced. If I had not myself hand sold books all over the country my advance would never have been fulfilled. In the end I sold more than twice as many on my own as were sold through the usual channels.
Last night Neil Gaiman was here, a guest of the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County. He answered questions, including this one.
"What was the biggest surprise of becoming a bestselling author? Becoming a bestselling author!"
Karen, I would love to hear and see Neil Gaiman again. In 2004 at the National Book Festival in D.C., he did an extra two hours of signing for fans, and at the end of all that, he was still gracious enough to take a picture with me. And, he not only signed his name in my copy of The Wolves in the Walls, he drew the head of a wolf. You can bet I treasure that book.
DeleteWhat an interesting topic. I believe writing is like singing or playing the piano or curling. Anyone can do it. Very few can do it well. So kudos to all of you for your creations that make my life complete. I can't imagine a day without reading or without music. Curling I can live without.
ReplyDeletePretty much all the writing I've ever done involved nursing policy and procedures. The average American reads on the fourth grade level, so I had whatever fourth grader in residence read them all before I had a finished product. My sons knew a helluva lot about female anatomy by age 10.
Julie is in marketing, so I know exactly the paces you are put through. What has amazed me is in meeting so many authors, I never felt that I was the object of the "sell." All made me feel like an old friend. You are indeed a lovely group of people, warm and welcoming, and I'm fairly convinced I'd love any of you to be my neighbor!
Speaking of old friends, Happy Birthday Hallie!
Clarification: My comment about that fourth grade reading level excludes your readers. The average American hasn't read a book since high school or something like that. So your readers are way above average. ;)
DeleteI think we'd all love to be your neighbor, too, Ann! For the great company, but also for the food!
DeleteSince I'm in the trenches of soliciting blurbs, I will jump on the "it is incredible how generous this community is" bandwagon.
ReplyDeleteAnd Julia, I'm glad to hear you can make money. I don't even need full-time-job money. The equivalent of a part-time job (someday) would be awesome!
Mary/Liz
Since I have been given a window into all the processes -- through conferences and blogs and talks -- I have been overwhelmed to see the energy and time you mystery writers devote to work other than the writing. The travel! Your appointment books must be jam=packed. Thank you for all you do.
ReplyDeleteI love this mystery community, too. It is wonderful to see how authors are friends with each other and recommending each others books. Of course, it means my TBR pile overflows, but that's a good problem to have - most of the time.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely a good problem to have, but a problem nonetheless, Mark! There isn't enough time to read!
DeleteI agree with Ingrid, there is never enough time to do all the reading we want.
DeleteI don't know who might've said it originally but I loved the quote that Warren Zevon said in the documentary about the end of his life. He said, "We buy books, because we think we are buying the time to read them."
If that is true, I'm going to live forever. Also, I love that quote so much it is on my Goodreads profile.
A friend whose first book came out last fall and I were just chatting about this yesterday over lunch. In addition to all the surprises mentioned, we've been surprised -- and honored -- by the reader comments. The first time a reader says, in person or by a note, she read your book while sitting with a dying spouse, a sick child, or in chemo, you cry, too -- and 8 books in, I still cry at those notes, because they mean I've done my job: told a story that a reader can dive into deeply enough to forget her own troubles for just a few minutes. Readers can make surprising disclosures to authors, because they feel connected to us, and that, too, touches me deeply. Deeply.
ReplyDeleteI'm always amazed how many readers say, "X character is just like my ______." That's also validation that I've done my job.
DeletePublishing question: Have any of you had to pay a fee to your literary agent or to the publishing company to get your books published? I wonder how the publishing industry works.
ReplyDeleteAnd I love the mystery community. They generally are supportive.
Thank you for writing your wonderful wonderful books!
And Rhys, I always knew who you are! Since I met you when you wrote your first Evan Evans book, I read all of your books. I am better at remembering authors' names than titles of books.
Diana
Diana, I can only speak to the traditional publishing route with a larger publisher, but you don't pay your agent or the publishing company. They make money when your books do, and they may even pay you an advance, which you then earn back.
DeleteAny one else want to chime in on the small press or self-publishing route?
Ingrid, thank you! I know several people who had to pay $$$ to have their books self published. I know one person who started her own small publishing company and printed books at home a long time ago. She just passed away at the age of 90?
DeleteI'm just so glad you all do what you do and let me listen in!
ReplyDeleteThe mystery/crime community is one of the best places to be, whether it be an author or a reader or a reader/reviewer/blogger. I had fallen in love with the Reds' writing before the 2013 Albany Bouchercon, and I fell in love with the actual Reds authors there. Hank and Rhys and Debs and Julia and Hallie and Lucy were all so gracious when I met them. It was my first Bouchercon, and I was blown away by how friendly and generous authors and others were. Jenn and Ingrid, I am so looking forward to meeting you both in St. Pete.
ReplyDeleteI am in such awe of all the work authors do outside of the writing. Your appearances, traveling all over the country, your pieces and interviews you do for bloggers like myself, the generosity you show helping new authors and supporting other authors, and the work you do in organizations like Sisters in Crime. With Hank's major other job with the TV news, I've long suspected that she has a clone. And, then you are there every day in every way for your families. Super powers are a requirement for being a successful author.
I find it interesting and completely believable that each book can start off with feelings of uncertainty or a bit of panic. Not that I'm in the league of writing that authors are, but doing reviews on my blog as long as I have, one would think that it's a simple exercise in familiarity, but one would be wrong. Every review I write, I worry that I'm not doing justice to the amazing writing I'm reviewing, and it's rarely an easy task to write a review with which I'm satisfied. And, talking about how when you written a successful book, when someone compliments me on a review, I do love it, but it almost makes the next review I write that much harder. To live up to praise can be a challenge. So, when readers give kudos to an author's book, I can imagine that there exists that concern when writing the next book that it maintains the excellence.
I look forward to meeting you, too, Kathy! Although I don't love the uncertainty that comes when starting something new, it's better than being complacent or disengaged. That's what I tell myself!
DeleteI never understand the competitor thing. I read a lot of books and, while I still find new authors browsing Barnes and Noble, I get many ideas from this blog and others. I also look at who blurbs and put extra weight if a blurb is by a favorite author. Always looking for more good books.
ReplyDelete