HALLIE EPHRON: Decades ago, I was on the upper west side of Manhattan, sitting in the window of a Chock Full of Nuts (that’s how long ago) on Broadway and 116th St., sipping my coffee and eating a cream cheese on raisin bread sandwich, when a man who was walking by and reading a newspaper walked smack into a pole.
He dropped the paper and punched the pole, immedately cradling his hand and cursing. Then he froze and looked around. Picked up the paper and scurried on.
His reaction revealed a lot about that poor guy. Oblivious enough to walk down Broadway with his head buried in a newspaper. Ready to go to war with a post…
So much rage! I wouldn’t want to be his wife. Or kid. Or dog.
And I imagined how someone else might react to running into a pole (as is so easy today with most of us glued to our cellphones instead of the objects and pedestrians and cars around us.) One person might bounce back and apologize to the pole. Or look around to see if anyone is watching and skulk off, pretending nothing happened. Or… done something else that would have revealed the person's mood or circumstances.
Have you had one of those writing moments, when a character you were writing surprised you with an unexpected reaction that showed you something you didn’t know about them?
RHYS BOWEN: when I was writing Constable Evans he had to go to France and they took the Eurostar through the Chunnel. And he came up the other side green and sweating. Until then I had no idea he was claustrophobic. And of course my next thought was: right, my boy. I’m sending you down a slate mine in the next book!
HALLIE: Reminds me of Michael Connelly who sends Harry Bosch, who was traumatized by tunnels in Vietnam, into dark claustrophobic spaces. Interesting how something unexpected in the FRONT story triggers an idea for something that happened to trigger it in the character’s BACK story.
JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: I found out something I didn’t use! In my early books, Rev. Clare Fergusson meets a charming and funny banker who spends time in the summer up in her area, which is a popular resort location. They never even kissed, although he was constantly flirting with her and hinting that she ought to visit him in NYC for some “one-on-one” time away from the prying eyes of her congregation.
She was talking about the relationship with one of her vestry, and I’m transcribing the conversation, as it sometimes feels like the author does, and the vestry member says, “My dear, he doesn’t realize that he’s gay, but surely you do.”
I was SHOCKED! I had zero idea. NONE. I sat with it for a while and wound up deciding to leave it out, because at that point, it would have added another subplot in an already over-laden story. So far, he never has come out, but it definitely affected how I wrote that character, and the relationship, going forward.
First time I found out something I didn’t know about one of my characters - and it was another totally fictional person who pointed it out.
JENN McKINLAY: In my latest book SUMMER READING, Emily Allen, the best friend of the main character Samantha Gale, is a librarian and when we meet her in the book, she’s doing research on cancer for a patron. Or so I thought.
It turns out she’s doing the research for herself – except she doesn’t have cancer. I will say no more to prevent spoilers but it sure surprised the heck out of me! Fear not, her story is completed in LOVE AT FIRST BOOK coming in May 2024.
HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: Ah, every time. Every time. And until it happens, I worry.
BIG shock in TRUST ME. Massive shock in THE MURDER LIST. Even in Prime Time, my first book, I remember it happening, and how surprised I was that my brain was doing something I hadn’t planned or thought of. At one point Charlotte is getting yelled at by her boss for something unfair, and she stands right up to him and defends herself.
Whoa, I thought. Where did that come from? I had thought Charlotte was more conciliatory. But nope.
Even in one scene in my upcoming One Wrong Word, Arden completely goes on a tear, threatening lawsuits and retaliation. It was SO much fun to write, but again, I had not “planned” for that to be her reaction. She came alive, and that was magical. It’s why we write, isn’t it? To be surprised?
DEBORAH CROMBIE: Nothing about writing is more fun than finding out these delicious things about your characters as you're writing.
And I imagined how someone else might react to running into a pole (as is so easy today with most of us glued to our cellphones instead of the objects and pedestrians and cars around us.) One person might bounce back and apologize to the pole. Or look around to see if anyone is watching and skulk off, pretending nothing happened. Or… done something else that would have revealed the person's mood or circumstances.
Have you had one of those writing moments, when a character you were writing surprised you with an unexpected reaction that showed you something you didn’t know about them?
RHYS BOWEN: when I was writing Constable Evans he had to go to France and they took the Eurostar through the Chunnel. And he came up the other side green and sweating. Until then I had no idea he was claustrophobic. And of course my next thought was: right, my boy. I’m sending you down a slate mine in the next book!
HALLIE: Reminds me of Michael Connelly who sends Harry Bosch, who was traumatized by tunnels in Vietnam, into dark claustrophobic spaces. Interesting how something unexpected in the FRONT story triggers an idea for something that happened to trigger it in the character’s BACK story.
JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: I found out something I didn’t use! In my early books, Rev. Clare Fergusson meets a charming and funny banker who spends time in the summer up in her area, which is a popular resort location. They never even kissed, although he was constantly flirting with her and hinting that she ought to visit him in NYC for some “one-on-one” time away from the prying eyes of her congregation.
She was talking about the relationship with one of her vestry, and I’m transcribing the conversation, as it sometimes feels like the author does, and the vestry member says, “My dear, he doesn’t realize that he’s gay, but surely you do.”
I was SHOCKED! I had zero idea. NONE. I sat with it for a while and wound up deciding to leave it out, because at that point, it would have added another subplot in an already over-laden story. So far, he never has come out, but it definitely affected how I wrote that character, and the relationship, going forward.
First time I found out something I didn’t know about one of my characters - and it was another totally fictional person who pointed it out.
JENN McKINLAY: In my latest book SUMMER READING, Emily Allen, the best friend of the main character Samantha Gale, is a librarian and when we meet her in the book, she’s doing research on cancer for a patron. Or so I thought.
It turns out she’s doing the research for herself – except she doesn’t have cancer. I will say no more to prevent spoilers but it sure surprised the heck out of me! Fear not, her story is completed in LOVE AT FIRST BOOK coming in May 2024.
HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: Ah, every time. Every time. And until it happens, I worry.
BIG shock in TRUST ME. Massive shock in THE MURDER LIST. Even in Prime Time, my first book, I remember it happening, and how surprised I was that my brain was doing something I hadn’t planned or thought of. At one point Charlotte is getting yelled at by her boss for something unfair, and she stands right up to him and defends herself.
Whoa, I thought. Where did that come from? I had thought Charlotte was more conciliatory. But nope.
Even in one scene in my upcoming One Wrong Word, Arden completely goes on a tear, threatening lawsuits and retaliation. It was SO much fun to write, but again, I had not “planned” for that to be her reaction. She came alive, and that was magical. It’s why we write, isn’t it? To be surprised?
DEBORAH CROMBIE: Nothing about writing is more fun than finding out these delicious things about your characters as you're writing.
I had never even thought about why my detective sergeant, Doug Cullen, is a cop until I was writing a scene in A KILLING OF INNOCENTS where he's telling another character that it was assumed he'd get a law degree and join his father's firm when he saw a recruiting ad for the Metropolitan Police and signed up for an interview.
It was his act of rebellion and I'd had no idea.
LUCY BURDETTE: Hayley Snow’s neighbor, Miss Gloria. I pulled her into the first book to have someone who could be bonked on the head and left for dead on the dock. She has blossomed into the most amazing character, the one whom people talk about and ask for the most. One reviewer called her “the poster child for senior citizens.” I had no idea!
HALLIE: Wondering if that ever has happened to you in real life: someone you think you know does something that feels so completely out of character that you find yourself wondering what else you don't know about them.
LUCY BURDETTE: Hayley Snow’s neighbor, Miss Gloria. I pulled her into the first book to have someone who could be bonked on the head and left for dead on the dock. She has blossomed into the most amazing character, the one whom people talk about and ask for the most. One reviewer called her “the poster child for senior citizens.” I had no idea!
HALLIE: Wondering if that ever has happened to you in real life: someone you think you know does something that feels so completely out of character that you find yourself wondering what else you don't know about them.
This is fascinating . . . .
ReplyDeleteOver the years I’ve been surprised by co-workers’ reactions to a classroom situation, but only once did it make me wonder about the person. And, as a result of what had seemed so out of character, I wasn’t a bit surprised when she walked away from her class and from teaching in the middle of the school year . . . .
Reminds me of when a woman I thought was a friend started to give me the cold shoulder and brush me off... then I found out there was something like her husband had suddenly left her. So it probably wasn't about... Good to remember: it's not always about "me."
DeleteHank, I so agree. These surprise moments are the best thing about being a writer!
ReplyDeleteI was watching the news one night and they announce that this man killed a taxi driver. It ended up being my close friend's younger brother that snapped and killed the woman driver. I was so shocked as he was such a mild kid and funny. I had quite a few conversations with him and I laughed a lot.
ReplyDelete... and doesn't it make you wonder what more there was to his story that made him a killer. As writers we have to believe it comes from somewhere in the past (otherwise it's too scary).
DeleteI loved that little vignette with the guy and his newspaper. I can't say I've been surprised by people I knew acting out of character to a point that made me wonder about them. Once in Sacramento, though, when I was on an exit ramp, at a standstill, idling my motor, because the traffic was so congested, a guy in a pick-up rear-ended my car. (Causing $6000 damage!) Amazingly, he jumped out of his pick-up and started kicking the front fender as if it were the truck's fault and he had nothing to do with it.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of when I was on an exit ramp, came to a standstill, and the guy behind me rear-ended me. I got out of the car and apologized to HIM. Fortunately no damage done to either cars that we couldn't live with.
DeleteIt must be the effect of shock (your apologizing.) I know for a couple of weeks after my accident and the police report, etc., and everyone agreeing it was his fault, I drove around super cautiously, as if it had been my fault. As if I were the poor driver!
DeleteElizabeth, that reminds me of a similar moment on a midtown Manhattan side street one evening about 50 years ago. I was on my way back to my hotel after a work dinner and saw two cabs parked near to one another, in the middle of an otherwise deserted block. Each cab had passengers. The one in front backed into the second cab, whereupon the driver flings open his door, jumps out and runs to the rear of his cab, hands flailing, furiously yelling "Look what you did to my cab!"
ReplyDeleteThe other driver jumps out, too, and the shouting match ensues.
Meanwhile, all the passengers exit both cabs and vanish. As I decided to do, as well, before I got pulled into the insanity.
That's really funny! (Although, I'm guessing it wasn't at the time.)
DeleteWhat a scene,Karen! And wouldn't it be different if you wrote it, depending on which character has the viewpoint. One of the drivers? One of the passengers? And what happened after. Would be a great way to begin a mystery novel. Writing it down...
DeleteOops sorry that was me, Hallie on viewpoint... of course.
DeleteOh, Hallie, yes, it would. While I was writing this, I was wondering why the cabs were in the middle of this block, where it was all the backs of buildings, no entrances that I could see, how and where the passengers got picked up, where they were going, and did the people in the cabs know one another? Truly a mystery.
DeleteI love when our characters surprise us, and I loved hearing all your stories.
ReplyDeleteIn one of my Local Foods mysteries, I had donated naming rights to a character to the Malice Domestic auction. Diane Weaver was high bidder, and I thought I would slide her in as one of the farm customers. After I was first surprised that Wes, farm customer and janitor at the old town hall, was growing pot in the basement, I was even more surprised when Diane showed up as the DEA agent to bust him - on CSA pick-up day at the farm! Diane loved her role. I fell in love with the magical parts of writing.
Forced choices can often have good results. If you go where it leads you which it obviously did.
DeleteThis is all fascinating to me, I must say. Characters doing their own thing, surprising their writers. Fascinating...
ReplyDeleteJulia: I'm glad you didn't listen to that character who suggests that Hugh (that's his name, isn't it?) is gay. I find that path too easy a way out in too many storylines. That he persists in pursuing Clare has always read true to me, as she is well worth pursuing (that red dress in the park)!
I have to agree, Amanda. And cliched plot twists are problematic. However... what's cliched today may not have been cliched years earlier. Tricky to spot the (future) cliches.
DeleteHallie: That could be its own post, couldn't it. "How to future proof one's story" -- or not, of course. Just write true for today and let the rest unfold. (On a pony book FB group I'm part of, a recent discussion was about whether new editions of our beloved series begun in 1949 England should have updated content about prices for ponies, and mothers smoking. The general consensus was NO, leave the original as is and let future readers figure it out.)
DeleteCharacters in stories surprise me all the time, but as a reader, I never know that they have surprised their authors, too.
ReplyDeleteMy brother is a person whom I do not discuss often. Let's say he's deeply flawed. At the 80th birthday party for his former girlfriend's father, everyone got up and told stories about the goodness and generosity of her dad. My brother told the best, most heartwarming story of anyone there. Not a dry eye in the house! I was gobsmacked!
That's a great story, Judy - and doesn't it make you wonder what generosity on the girlfriend's father's part brought out that moment of warmth and generosity from your brother!
DeleteI loved hearing these stories about surprises the characters present to their creators. Magic, indeed!
ReplyDelete.... and then there are the times when you write yourself into a corner. It happens.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that what happened was out of character but it was very well hidden.
ReplyDeleteFor a little more than three years I volunteered with a woman my age that I considered my friend. We had fun together, she came home a couple of times. As she lived with her parents we didn’t go to her home.
One day she disappeared from volunteering and from town without a word. Later I learned by someone else that she went to live with another woman that was her lover. She was gay and I had no clue.
I was sad that she didn’t trust me enough to talk to me about it and I missed her a lot.
Danielle
Oh my, that is so sad! Wow. I do hope that wouldn't happen as much these days.
DeleteDanielle, I agree that is so sad. I think back to the 1970's when my generation was so accepting of others including gays. We marched in the streets for gay rights, anti-war demonstrations, black civil rights, women's rights, etc. But we weren't really "knowing" about those close to us as being gay wasn't talked about. I had a 30ish, single co-worker who lived with a room-mate (a young woman) but she never talked about boyfriends. We, as her co-workers, tried to set her up all the time with cute guys. I now suspect she was gay and she was always a good sport - but I wish I had known.
DeleteObvious question: Did she have chickens? Children??
ReplyDeleteThese are great stories about the unconscious part of the creative process. As a 9-1-1 supervisor, I had to investigate complaints and talk to the calltakers and dispatchers about their mistakes. Since I knew people pretty well after months and years of working together, there were certain meetings I would dread and others I assumed would go more easily. Sometimes I was really wrong; the difficult employee would respond positively to the feedback and the conciliatory employee would go off on me.
ReplyDeleteThere are also times when I have surprised myself--during one particularly difficult Labor-Management meeting, people from both teams were getting emotional but I stepped up and gently directed the conversation so that people got heard and we ended up in a positive place. Afterwards, I wondered where that inspiration and strength came from. Now I would blame the Holy Spirit :)
Blame or credit, Gillian? What a lovely story about your own unrecognized trait.
DeleteI experienced something similar as an elementary school teacher on parent/teacher night.
DeleteHmm...someone I know that does something so out of character that it makes me wonder what else I don't know about them. That's a tall order.
ReplyDeleteI mean, you wouldn't believe the list of crimes that kids I coached in youth basketball have gone on to commit as adults. You've got everything from murder, rape and any other assorted violent crimes down to what would pass for run of the mill DUI charges. Of course, I only knew them when they couldn't even drive a car so my depth of "knowing" them wouldn't be THAT deep but it is still surprising when you hear the news. Although one of those that were involved in a murder had me remarking, "it was only a matter of time".
Or maybe when I was trying to find an old co-worker of mine that I was friendly with. I hadn't been able to find her on Facebook which seemed a little strange to me. Then it dawned on me to search her out on Google. Try not to chuckle at the notion it took me YEARS to come to that idea. Anyway, I wish I hadn't done that. The fourth entry on the search results revealed that she'd been charged in at least two states with certain crimes that landed her on certain lists. And since that list comes with a new photo each year I could confirm that it was indeed her. Let's just say that was a rather stunning shock to the system when I saw that.
Jay your comment about your youth basketball players reminds me of the time an 8th grade player in my son’s team coached by my husband stole a car to come to practice. I worked in that middle school and have seen many a former student in the news, mostly for crimes, but occasionally for something good. Most are not surprising.
DeleteWhat an interesting topic -thank you- and thought-provoking discussion. Thinking it over, my main characters have seldom surprised me ( maybe I need to consider if I have too tight a leash?) but secondary characters often do. And it is so much fun. Ex: having written a book where the victim had NO enemies, I decided the next one would be about a victim, a public figure, who had nothing but. Still it was a surprise when his 3 ex-wives become friends. And it turned out there was one person who actually loved him. And the murder motive was...not at all what it looked like it would be.
ReplyDelete(That character surprised me)
It's unexpected (to the author) twists and turns that keep the WRITING interesting.
DeleteOh, what a great topic! In Death By Sunken Treasure a well loved character whom I had plans for in future books turned out to be the murderer. I went through four drafts trying to figure out what wasn't working when the character laughed at me and confessed. It was the missing piece.
ReplyDeleteWOW! You made me smile
DeleteDanielle
Kait, I wrote a whole book where one character was the murderer, then realized he would NEVER have done it. I had to rework the entire plot--the only time I've ever dealth with that challenge!
DeleteDebs, agreed. Louis was just too good-hearted to be the murderer. It would have been so disappointing if you'd let him do that.
DeleteThinking of real-life people surprising us, it happened the first time I traveled with young-adult Youngest. Now, as a kid and a teen, she fully enjoyed her status as the baby of the family, and was happy to let others do for her if she could get away with it. What a delightful surprise to find out she was the perfect traveling companion - calm, ready to spring into action, pulling her weight (literally) and more without ever complaining.
ReplyDeleteAll our kids mature, but sometimes, thankfully, they do so in ways we could never envision when they were, say, 13...
I agree, Julia. I am loving being the mother of adult sons. Lots of surprises, and most are so positive and gratifying.
DeleteMine so often surprise me in the kitchen! They're both excellent cooks and can look in a refrigerator and come up with something to make out of whatever's in there.
DeleteI actually surprise myself. I grew up as a rather shy person, sitting at the back of the class, etc.
ReplyDeleteOver the years I have changed completely. Now I will sit in front at a meeting and go out
of my way to contribute to discussions. I work in an area where I interact with the public and I
make it a point to reach out to people. When I was growing up, I never would have expected
that I would become so outgoing.
I have also had dreams about the way to deal with issues on my mind and when I wake up I
find they have provided the answers and I have actually applied those solutions to the
situation or used them to think in a different direction.
Ooooh, that would be brilliant!! A mystery protagonist who surprises themselves! And then needs to figure out where it came from.
DeleteI seem to remember Elizabeth George's editor (?) suggesting lengthy detailed backstories for the characters. And her characters are certainly fully fleshed, even the minor ones.
ReplyDeleteBut I can also see where that could constrain an author, and discovering the character as you write has merit and unimagined potential. It certainly has worked for the Reds.
In real life we discover the depths of people one interaction at a time, not all at once. And they frequently surprise us.
It's one of the drawbacks of email and social media... we can't a very slanted view of a person. I suppose it was the same back in the day when phone calls and letters might comprise the basis of a relationship.
DeleteHALLIE: This reminds me of Ellie's Bakeshop Mystery series. She intended the character to be revealed as the killer in the first book then decided to keep this character as a recurring character and the other character turned out to be the killer.
ReplyDeleteThe story about this fellow walking into a pole because he was reading the newspaper. Yikes! As a college student, I noticed many students would read a book and walk at the same time. I wondered if that was one of the things that hearing people could do because I cannot do that.
People can surprise you. As a reader, I think I know who the killer is in a mystery novel then the killer turns out to be someone else! Sometimes I could guess correctly and sometimes I am wrong. Looking at the clues and how the story unfolded, it makes sense to me WHY this character has to be the killer.
Diana
This is reminding me of a description I read of a scientist so engrossed in his work that he'd walk down corridors reading with one hand holding the book or document and the other hand trailing along the wall of the corridor.
DeleteSuch great examples of unexpected behavior in book characters and real people, guys! Hallie, I'm not really answering the question precisely, but your example of the man hitting the post reminded me that a number of people I know have surprised me with the amount of anger they carry around, not far from the surface. Someone I was very fond of and thought I knew well started to drink too much and turned out, to my amazement, to be a very belligerent drunk. After several dinner parties ended (at their house) with my husband and me leaving fast and (at our house) with our asking her and her husband to leave, we didn't see each other for a couple of years. Now she's not drinking to access, and we're back to being friends. But we'll never be as close as we were--the anger is still there, I'm sure, just temporarily caged again, and that's worrisome.
ReplyDeleteLike the rest of you, definitely yes. It can be something subtle, like Ariel's inner strength in MURDER VISITS A FRENCH VILLAGE or something so major even the character doesn't realize it until I surprise myself by putting her bad boy ex-husband in Dani O'Rourke's path in MURDER IN THE ABSTRACT, only to find out she's not as over him as she (and I) thought!
ReplyDeleteWe were in Rome visiting St. Peter's square when a fight broke out between two vendors. They were yelling, pushing and eventually punching. The police arrived and to my surprise, told the crowd to get back. The officers then leaned against their cars for several minutes and watched, laughing and joking. When the guys were tuckered out, the officers walked up and told them to get back to work!
ReplyDelete