RHYS BOWEN: Today's post was all ready to go. It was on the places I was going to visit on my upcoming trip to England and France this week. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. John had a medical emergency a couple of days ago and has come home from hospital too weak to travel. Obviously I am not going to leave him, so the trip is no more.
So this is a last minute post.
Laura’s post yesterday highlights not only the bravery of young women during both World Wars but the cavalier and unfair way they were treated. The nightingales were provided with no parachute because they were expected to stay with the wounded if the plane crashed? Oh, right.
I just read an article about the Hello Girls. These were American girls who signed on to be telephone operators the first world war and were posted to the trenches with the soldiers. There they not only relayed messages from the front to the generals but sometimes had to translate those messages from French to English or visa versa. And after the war they were not considered proper army and thus given no veterans benefits, no GI bill.
The same was true of the women in WW2 who ferried planes from the factories where they were made to the various air force bases. Other young women flew crashed or damaged planes to bases to be repaired. They were not considered part of the military. If the plane crashed the girl’s family had to pay to have her body shipped home. After years of fighting for their rights some eventually did get a pension and military honors but most by then had died.
The way women were overlooked and ignored was one of the reasons I have written about several of them in my novels. (The Paris Assignment was the most recent of these). I don't think men can understand that we women have to fight to be recognized on every rung of that ladder. My daughter's best friend in college became an OB/GYN. When she came into the operating room the anesthetist looked up and said "Oh good, you're here." Cheryl smiled until he said, "Now you can run and get me some coffee." He had taken for granted that she was lesser, there to serve.
When I was in the BBC drama department I once had some producer make the same mistake. I told him quite firmly that my job was to run a studio and not get coffee and if he wanted his microphones to work and his actors to be heard he'd bloody well better be nice to me. (I've never been the shrinking violet type).
What examples do you have of having to fight for rights or being overlooked? (Perhaps with a woman president things might start to change???)
Good grief . . . I have not heard about the Hello Girls before and, although I've no particular example of women being overlooked, it certainly does seem happen quite often :(
ReplyDeleteWishing John a speedy and complete recovery . . . .
I hope John gets his strength and health back soon! I love your response to the producer.
ReplyDeleteI remember a keen sense of injustice as far back as second grade, when the boys were sent to the book room to bring back the books and I asked why I couldn't go. Directly after college when I worked at a gas station doing everything except brakes, men would drive in and ask where my father was. I would say, sweetly, that he was teaching school an hour away, and could I help them? (Because why would a young woman work as a mechanic unless her father owned the station?) And when I walked into auto parts stores, the guys behind the counter ignored me completely. Grr.
Rhys, I hope John recovers quickly and completely. I also hope that you can reschedule even a part of your trip.
ReplyDeleteYour response to that producer was stellar. I am sure that things like that happened to me, but I probably did not have such a snappy come back. I had an interesting conversation about women becoming invisible with a friend just last week. She happens to be short and she was describing her experiences of being ignored. I have lost some height in the last ten years and agree that that and aging together can make a woman disappear.
Judy, I have noticed that, too. I've decided to take that invisibility as my superpower. If no one bothers to see what you're up to, you can get away with a lot of subversion. Heheheh.
DeleteI've always been short, and I think that's part of why I've always been assertive (some might have said overly so, but tough luck).
DeleteAn asset for a female detective! That’s why Miss Marple was so good
DeleteLove how Miss Marple turns the "invisibility" into a super power! It is a case of making lemonade out of lemons.
DeleteRhys, your post about women in wartime reminded me of several books like THE WOMEN by Kristin Hannah. Growing up in a home where there were many books about strong women (usually science fiction novels read by my father), it is hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that women are "weak" or less than men are. Your response to the producer was stellar. Believe it or not, years later when a Deaf friend had a summer internship at the BBC in London, England, she had wonderful experiences ( they worked with her and provided interpreters whenever needed) while another Deaf friend, a Man, had horrid experiences that same summer at an American TV studio where they REFUSED to provide interpreters and refused to work with this Brilliant man.
Gentle hugs and healing vibes to dear John. I know you'd much rather have him feisty, Rhys!
ReplyDeleteI'd also never heard of Hello Girls. Such a horrible injustice, to be given terrifying and vital responsibility, then thrown aside like a used tissue.
I honestly don't know if it's worse when the prejudice is overt or when it's sneaky and sly. At least when it's out in the open--"run get the coffee, there's a good girl"--you can confront it. And why are we STILL having to fight this dimwitted battle? It's exhausting, which, now that I think about it, is probably the whole point. Wear us out, and we'll meekly comply. Oh, hell, no.
My younger women friends, some of whom I've known all their lives, give me hope. They are engaged, and active, and brave. Three of my friends have daughters now either in public office, or running; the one who is on the ballot now is an out lesbian in her 50's with her own business. That could never have happened when I was at their same age, 30-40 years ago. Baby steps! Better than no steps at all.
From Celia; So sorry John isn’t well and am sending strong healing vibes. I hope he recovers very soon.
ReplyDeleteInjustice must always be called out, not allowed to fester.
Healing energy for John. I hope he's up and around soon and you are able to reschedule your fabulous trip.
ReplyDeleteSexism is alive and well in our world, but we have some victories to celebrate. My mom was angry that her daughters weren't allowed to be acolytes at our Episcopal church and then that the church was moving too slowly and reluctantly towards ordaining women. Now of course, we have women and LGBTQ folks in ordained ministry and characters like Clare Fergusson in novels. This year, we celebrate 50 years since the Philadelphia 11 were ordained and remember that struggle.
Oh, Gillian, it seems like only yesterday the Philadelphia 11 were ordained. And the struggle goes on in other religious organizations. Elisabeth
DeleteMy daughter is kicking ass in the construction world. She is a highly sought after project manager for a concrete contractor.
ReplyDeleteRHYS: Sending best wishes to John for a full recovery. Sorry about your research trip.
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear about John, Rhys, sending positive, healing thoughts to him! And, oh yes, the little woman in a man's world. Introductions going around at a meeting with federal officials on a multi-million-dollar project: "This is Dr. So-and-So, Dr. So-and-So-also," etc., then: "And this is Flora Church." From someone I'd gone to grad school with, no less! And countless times in the field, visitors (official and casual), head straight to the first male they see. And a big oil honcho once told my boss that I needed to be 'less rigid.' Yeah, a-hole, federal regs are there for a purpose and you don't get to push me over to bend them!
ReplyDeleteRhys, Best wishes to John for a speedy recovery. Marjorie
ReplyDeleteFirst things first...I was sorry to read of John's medical emergency but am happy to know that he is now home and on the road to recovery. Sending best wishes that he heals quickly. Secondly, today's post understandably may have been rushed and last minute for you but certainly not any less effective or powerful. It, in fact, brought many emotions forward for me as a woman who has often felt overlooked and invisible as a Baby Boomer. While we strongly support those women who represent the generations following us I often wonder who supports us as we grow older. It also reminds me of the contributions we have made to society and the courage and battles we have fought to be recognized. The unfairness of the system, the inequality and the often weak excuses we were given as to why over the past centuries we could not vote, be a surgeon, an attorney, first responder or be in any profession that was deemed "for men only", earn equal wages, be in public office, be allowed memberships in certain clubs, participate in certain sports or get a credit card without a spouse's permission...the list was endless. Absolute nonsense as history would attest otherwise of what we were capable of as women while publicly being advertised as the "weaker sex'..
ReplyDeleteAll countries, Evelyn. I remember my husband having to co-sign my first credit card.
DeleteThanks also to all the authors and historians who uncover the amazing stories like those mentioned by Rhys Bowen that would otherwise stay buried forever. The photo above of the women operating the switchboard brought back memories of me as a youngster standing in my aunt's dining area that had been converted into a communications center for the town in which we lived. Aunt Libby, who was confined to a wheelchair all her life due to polio, found a way to make a living by operating a switchboard that was connected to the entire town's network. She was every doctor's, dentist's attorney's, town managements' gateway to communication with the public. She ran that board like she was piloting a plane navigating every blinking light and the hundreds of jack plugs she inserted or removed each time a call was answered or finished. (Our family always knew if we needed a doctor or dentist in the middle of the night we could count on my aunt to find one.) She was a valuable asset to the town especially during emergencies and she operated that board on its behalf for decades. I remember as a teenager the time Kathrine Switzer in 1967 punched a hole in the idea that women were not strong enough to run in the Boston Marathon which at the time was a mens only event. Thankfully, although she caused quite the uproar at the time, she (and Bobbi Gibb) forced a change in the event's rulebook and the rest is history. She paved the way for women like our niece Becca Pizzi who ran in (and the First American woman to do so ) The World Marathon Challenge, an ultra marathon event that involves running seven marathons on seven continents in seven days. Not once but twice she did this and still holds the overall record. It open the door for her in the world of ultra marathon sports and this once shy little girl is now a confidant female running coach, race director, business leader, children's book author and motivational speaker. I know there are so many other stories like this among all of us here...proof of how far women have come debunking so many conspiracy theories about our gender. As the saying goes "You've come a long way, baby"....but we are still not finished.
DeleteRhys ~ It's remarkable that we all had to adhere to that type of bias. I earned more than my husband at the time I walked out of a certain well-known department store in 1971 after the manager (which I requested to see) made it very clear that the only way I would qualify for a credit card was if I was willing to have the card be printed up as Mrs.(my husband's name). I told him that wasn't my name...I had my own name...and that was that. I won the battle but not the war. A few years later, following my divorce, I was finally able to nail down my own credit card in my own name based on my own credentials and salary. I wasn't extended much credit but it was a start and I still keep that account open today as a reminder of my small accomplishment in the world of finance...lol. A Jordan Marsh Department Store credit card which then became a Macy's Department Store credit card. I'm sometimes asked why I even bother to hold open a department store credit card...their interest fees are ridiculous. I answer that I never carry a balance and the reasons are personal. :)
DeleteMy aunt, who was a professional woman with a good salary in the 1930s, wanted to buy a house she could afford but nobody would give her a mortgage
DeleteIsn't it unbelievable that absolute rubbish regulations like that was legally allowed and that your aunt was unable to secure a mortgage!
DeleteSorry about your trip. Hope your hubby gets better soon. Best wishes to him.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of WWII and women, I just read a fascinating novel THE WOMEN, by Kristen Hannah.
It is about the U.S. Army Nurse Corp and the women who signed up and were stationed at military hospitals in Vietnam. When many of them returned, people (even other soldiers) refused to believe they served as the common response the women nurses received was there were no women in Vietnam.
I can’t believe the ignorance. And what all those who served in Vietnam suffered when they returned
DeleteCannot believe the ignorance either.
DeleteYes, The Women was really eye-opening, and I grew up in that era!
DeleteWasn't the TV show China Beach about the women nurses in Vietnam?
DeleteOne additional comment, when I was around age 23 (in the early 1970's) I worked in an office. Women faced challenges getting a credit card in their name, opening a bank account. The Boomer generation (including men) really changed society with the women's rights, civil rights movements.
ReplyDeleteMay John be healed and healthy soon. Elisabeth
ReplyDeleteThank you all for your kind wishes
ReplyDeleteOh Dear. I am so sorry about the medical emergency and hope that John is healed and healthy now, Rhys! Sorry to hear about your research trip.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many examples that I can think of where I had to fight for my rights. Deaf people can be "invisible" to others. September is DEAF AWARENESS MONTH. There are many posts on social media about how we can be ally to deaf people. This comment is going to be Long.....
A most recent example is with my health provider. They kept on calling me on the PHONE and when I never replied, they finally sent me a letter scheduling my procedure WITHOUT my input.
When I explained about Americans with Disabilities Act to the Ombundsman, their reply was to send me the same letter so many times saying that they are following the laws. I merely said "under Americans with Disabilities Act, I have the right to ask for text messaging or email or letter since I am deaf. "
They sent me an email ONCE then reverted back to phone calls. (Eye roll here). Then when I showed up for my procedure, they did not understand my request for Remote Interpreting (video) and I refused to undress until they got me the VRI (video remote interpreter). After 10 minutes, they FINALLY got me the VRI!
Yes, my Health provider laid off 250 people working and the service has become less than excellent. It was very frustrating. The procedure was at a different facility. Actually it was two procedures on the same day instead of two separate procedures on different days, which was done before.
Two things: Rhys, you and John are brave and inspirational. Xxx
ReplyDeleteAs for your question: when I got my first job as a radio reporter, in 1970, it was only because the station had no women working there. After I accepted the job, the news director, said “oh, and perhaps you can type my letters for me.” “ I smiled, sweetly, and lied. “oh gosh,”‘ I said, “I don’t know how to type.”
I am laughing at this comment by Hank Phillippi Ryan. Well played!!! When I was an office manager (and the only female) at a small structural engineering firm in the 1980's the president not only asked me to keep the office kitchen stocked with coffee, beverages and goodies for the "boys" but to vacuum the carpets once a week. The final straw was when he requested that I clean the bathroom! I blew my top and replied ~ "When you all learn how to aim and hit the bowl correctly which will only happen when pigs fly would I ever consent to doing that task. Hire a cleaner who will not only clean the bathroom for you but also vacuum the carpeting because that's now off my office duties list, too." The more comments I read on this latest blog the more I realize how much nonsense we had to put up with over the years in the working world! And no one to protect us either when certain individuals would try to get "frisky" with us; we were our own negotiators in that world, too!
DeleteSO true! xx
DeleteOh my gosh, yes, horrible experience with my first out of college job, which I still don't even want to recount. What surprises me now was that I'd managed to get all the way through college without experiencing sexual harrassment. I didn't even know that was what it was called!
DeleteMy mother worked for a small company for many years and the owner was very generous to her in many ways.
ReplyDeleteAfter a number of years, she found out there was a big world out there when she was offered a job at a much higher salary and better hours. When she told her boss/owner he was hurt that she would consider leaving and on several occasions came to her new office asking her to come back.
He had replaced her with a man and gave him a much higher salary, but he couldn’t do most of what my mother did.
When my mother asked her former boss why she had never been offered the same amount, she was told this other person was a man and had a family to support. My mother replied she wasn’t working just to keep herself busy. She never went back.
Another boss she had, also the head of the company, tried chasing her around the office.
He was very embarrassed when he found out she was married (as was he) and apologized saying he never would have done it if he had known she was married. He found out when she became pregnant.
When he visited her in the hospital he actually brought work for her to do because he was unable to find anyone to replace her.
When health insurance first became available, my mother wasn’t able to get it because my father hadn’t signed the necessary paperwork. At that time the insurance covered all expenses.
She initially couldn’t get a credit card either. When she was finally able to it had to be with my father’s name and she was Mrs. . Her own first name never appeared. The irony is that it was her salary that was listed on the credit application.
Rhys, I hope your husband recovers quickly and that you’ll be able to take your trip soon. Thanks for the thought provoking post! I remember buying my first car in the late 1980s. I took my Dad with me since he knew more about cars than me, but all the sales people wanted to talk to him. He refused and pointed them to me. Every male sales person said, “Look at this trunk! Plenty of room for groceries.” I finally found a female sales person and purchased from her. One minor clarification on your post, there was no GI Bill after WWI for men or women. But you’re right that the women, including the Hello Girls, that served in WWI received NO benefits.
ReplyDeleteHow distressing. I hope John recovers quickly and is ready for a nonmedical adventure soon.
ReplyDeleteThis topic makes me furious. Talk about the slings and arrows of sexism. It starts early. Remember safety patrol in elementary school? Badges, caps, a white shoulder/waist belt, bamboo pool with a STOP flag on the end for traffic control? Boys only. Acolytes in church to assist the priest? Boys only. At one point in my childhood I wanted to be either a park ranger or a forest ranger. Guess what? Men only. In the 70s I remember going with my husband to a bank to get a small loan. My car was to be the security. The banker set me in a chair off to the side and proceeded to talk to my husband about income, expenses, etc. After all, I was the ignorant little woman who wouldn't understand. Also the one who paid our bills and kept track of all that stuff. When the loan was paid off I sent a letter requesting they return my car title as they were taking their sweet time. They returned it by mail with a letter addressed to Mr Dupuy, apologizing for the delay. Aaaargh.
Rhys, you know I'm thinking of you and wishing John the speediest of recoveries!
ReplyDeleteI remember so clearly the dinner I put together at the Raleigh Bouchercon, and you and John came, along with some other of my favorite authors (Elly Griffiths and Anne Cleeland). John was at the other end of the table from us, with a newbie author there, too. I was a bit worried about that end because not everyone knew each other, but John kept the talk and companionship going at that end, and he became one of my favorite, lovely people then and there. I hate hearing that he's sick, although he probably is more active than I am. I do wish him a quick and smooth recovery. And, of course, I'm so sorry your England/France trip is off. It seems that it's a restorative type of trip for you, and with all your hard work, I know that's important. I hope something else comes along later that will make up for missing it.
ReplyDeleteOne area of women being looked down upon or ignored really makes my blood boil. It's buying a car. The vehicle I had before the one I have now was especially a trying purchase experience. The male car salesman talked only to Philip, and I didn't realize until it was too late that the salesman had put the car, my car, only in Philip's name. Well, when we went to get the SUV I now drive, I was prepared. The salesman started explaining something about the vehicle to Philip, and I interrupted him to tell him if he wanted to make a sale, he should be talking to who was going to be the owner of it, me. He did immediately get the message. Now, I could go and buy a car by myself, but Philip is old-fashioned enough that he wants to accompany me, and I really don't mind. It's the sales personnel who need training in how to talk to couples purchasing a vehicle. You have to be vigilant about financial institutions, too.
Kathy, John is absolutely one of my favorite people, too. As for the car business, I'm thinking about doing a whole post about how much I hate car buying--one of the main reasons I'm still driving my sixteen-year-old Honda!--and that is a big part of it. Even if you go on your own, the treat you like a pushover or an idiot. And don't get me started on dealing with car maintenance guys!!! I got my oil changed recently at the place down the street and they tried to upsell me on $500 worth of things the car "really needed." Arggh.
DeleteI hate the upsell when getting an oil change.
DeleteBest wishes to you and especially John for quick, complete recovery. Right there with you - we've had a lot of this in our house this year too. Anxiety creating, interferes with plans and it is so exhausting- hoping you both come through with flying colors!
ReplyDeleteNo one could ever take you for a "shrinking violet," Rhys! More a force to be reckoned with. ANd I agree with Debs on car shopping... and hardware shopping though sometimes being "the little woman" can work in your favor. Rhys, we're all rooting for John ... wise but heartbreaking to cancel the trip.
ReplyDeleteRhys ~ I thoroughly enjoy the fact that you carried the topic of overlooked women into a second day. It's clear we all have lots of thoughts and shared stories about the importance of this subject matter. The blog discussions have been both enlightening and empowering; as a group we are like a small army of warriors and champions. I love it! This website is wonderful. Again, I am sorry that your husband John experienced a medical emergency. Prayers for a quick recovery! Hopefully your trip to England and France can be rescheduled as well. I recall speaking to Hank Phillippi Ryan at one of her book signings about name selections for her books which I think is fascinating. I wanted you to know that I love the story behind your unique pen name Rys Bowen.You have such an interesting BIO. In a previous blog when I mentioned that I took my tea in a Royal Worcester Wrendale Design mug you said that you had gifted your granddaughter Wren with a Wrendale mug you purchased while in London. I love the name Wren also!
ReplyDeletePrayers for your husband John! Hugs for you! I had heard about the women who ferried the planes, but not the Hello Girls! I was hired by a Fortune 100 company right out of college due to a consent decree to bring more women with engineering, math and science backgrounds into corporations. That should give you an idea of what I was up against for assignments, credit for my work and even vacations as I did not have any children! Bravo! Keep these wonderful stories alive.
ReplyDeleteHope John is on the mend soon. Reading the previous comments, I was reminded to two distinct moments when I had to nudge things in another direction. I was working with all men and one of the first things they asked me to do was make coffee. I looked at them and said, "I don't know how. Don't drink it, don't like it. I can, however, brew a decent cup of tea." Sadly, no tea drinkers there so they were stuck making their own coffee. Another time was when I finally figured out I could assert myself concerning my medical care. This overzealous resident was certain I had bone cancer and started listing all these tests I needed. I stopped him and said, "Pick one that gives you the most information, I'm not made of money." When the test results came in, the supervising doc came in and chuckled saying the young man was sure I had bone cancer because he'd never seen the particular bone formations that I had. Of course, there was no cancer, and I was only out one copay. One can only hope that young doc learned a few things from the experience.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry to hear about John and hugs on the canceled plans. Thank you for sharing this fabulous story -- I had never heard of the Hello Girls and am completely fascinated and not at all surprised they were overlooked. *sigh*
ReplyDelete