RHYS BOWEN: I met Julia Child once, at an upscale eatery in San Francisco. My publishers had taken me there but when Julia and Paul sat at the next table they lost all interest in me, only fascinated by what she was going to eat next. I saw her as a tall, gawky, middle aged woman, one who dropped her chicken during her TV cooking classes. Loveable but clumsy. Imagine then my surprise when my friend Diana Chambers told me she was writing a book about Julia as a WWII spy.
"Are you crazy?" I said. But she shook her head. "It's all true. I've checked all the sources. She really was a spy in Asia during the war."
Holy cow! What a scoop! What a story! I gave Diana my input as she was writing it and cheered with her when it was finally sold. And now I'm happy to have her as my guest to tell you about the birth of THE SECRET WAR OF JULIA CHILD.
RHYS: Welcome, dear Diana. Where did the idea for this book come from? Have you always been fascinated with Julia Child? How did you hear about her wartime adventures?
DIANA: About ten years ago, I read that during World War Two, Julia Child had served in the OSS, America’s first espionage agency. I blinked and sat up straight. The Julia Child? The matronly TV chef?
But SPIES? And in India and China?! Something sparked inside me. I felt electrified. Somehow I KNEW...This was it...MY STORY...I had to investigate...but I knew...
However first, I’d have to get to know Julia McWilliams Child. I was not a Julia fangirl—and not a cook. In fact, I try to keep as far from the kitchen as possible! So I knew her mainly as this quirky woman with an upraised spoon, frumpy wardrobe, and problematic hairdo.
RHYS: How much of the story is fact? How much did you make up?
DIANA: The wartime experiences of Julia McWilliams on the front lines of Asia is based closely on the available historical record. That was my scaffolding. Still, it wasn’t Julia who first drew me to the story, but its espionage setting in India and China—where I have long ties. At university, I studied India art and history. I first traveled there around 30, the same age Julia, as I would learn, arrived on a Navy troopship! At that time, I began an export business and have returned often over the years. I’ve also traveled around China and SE Asia. Penguin Random House India published my post-WWII novel, The Star of India, a few years ago. An honor that was especially meaningful when my Indian agent, editor, and several journalists told me they had to keep reminding themselves that I was a “foreigner.”
Even with this background, I had a LOT to learn! Fortunately I love research.
I read everything I could get my hands on...but especially for the day-to-day life, I had to fill in the gaps. By now I’d come to admire Julia—LOVE her—and wanted to tell a story I believed was honest to her truth. This is historical fiction, a product of my educated imagination.
One thing I can say is true: That twinkle in Julia’s eye you see on television? She had that twinkle her entire life! She’d always been bubblng with creativity, humor, and zest for life. As a girl, she directed, wrote and acted in plays she produced in her family’s Pasadena attic. Around this time, she confided to her diary and mother her goal of becoming a “famous woman writer.” But she was also tall, gawky, insecure. She had a lot to overcome.
RHYS: Have you been to the places you write about? How hard is it to write about places you haven’t been? What sort of research did you do?
DIANA: As part of telling Julia’s story, I wanted to walk in her size 12A shoes, journeying through the touchstones of her life. I visited all of the locations in the book, except Chabua, the Indian airbase at the foot of the Himalayas...from which she flies a cargo plane “over the Hump” to China. But I’d been in Kashmir and the Karakoram mountains of China and Pakistan. So I had a good “feel” for the location. As far as my book research, I read wide and deep...biographies, memoirs, military, political, cultural accounts...Books on espionage and cryptography. Narratives from the local perspectives.
It’s also important to remember that much of the Office of Strategic Services’ archives were classified until the 21st C so scholars have had less time to study and write about them. Also Western eyes have been more focused on Europe/Pacific. No wonder it’s called, The Forgotten War in Asia.
RHYS: It’s been a complicated publishing journey to bring this book to birth. Tell us a little about it.
DIANA: Very complicated...very long. It’s been hard work along the way, many heartbreaks. Agents have retired or disappointed me. Queries have been rejected—or ignored. Also there was work on The Star of India. But I had a deep belief in this novel—I knew readers would want to read Julia’s story.
RHYS: And after all that struggle good things started finally happening. Tell us more.
After getting off the plane in Nashville for August’s Bouchercon, I opened an email to learn THE SECRET WAR OF JULIA CHILD was being featured in People magazine as a Best Book of the Fall, a Must Read! Everyones love Julia.
RHYS: What did Julia take from her wartime days that laid the groundwork for her later success?
DIANA: That's a fascinating questions! Promoted to serve in India, Julia has sensory experiences she could have never imagined—sights, sounds, colors, smells...flavors that blast open her taste buds. Then she meets mapmaker Paul, a true foodie. She opens to the world. As she would say in later years, “The war made me.”
Have you seen the YouTube clip of Julia’s oven door taped shut to protect her soufflé? Anyone who dares enter, she proclaims, will be COURTMARTIALED.
Then there’s the one of Julia and her BATTLE PLAN for baking a chocolate cake...her ingredients and implements lined-up on the counter...
During war, equipment must be deployed in a specific manner, like an order of battle in the field. Procedures matter—just like a written recipe. Remember, her dream of becoming a “famous woman writer”? Now, Julia set out to document France’s precious culinary traditions!
In the OSS, Julia learned to keep her ears open and head down…absorb info through her senses. In Paris, she worked hard chopping onions at the Cordon Bleu (as she had at the OSS), so she’d be respected enough to move up to next level. She was accepted into the local cooking community—now able to ferret out recipes, techniques, SECRETS of French cuisine.
RHYS: I know you'll all be absolutely fascinated by this book. I see MOVIE written all over it. It is now in stores. So feel free to ask Diana any questions. She will give away a signed copy of the book to one lucky commenter!
Wow! Who knew?
ReplyDeleteCongratulations, Diana, on your book . . . I am so intrigued I can't wait to read it!
Hi Joan, thanks for stopping by and for your good words! This book was a LABOR of pure LOVE!
DeleteThis sounds wonderful! I am looking forward to it.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Maren—and Rhys for inviting me:-)
DeleteThat was me, Maren:-)
DeleteAnother in a much too long line of underestimated women. Thank you for opening up Child's story, Diana, and revealing more of her genius.
ReplyDeleteThe roles of women in the war effort, like Child, Virginia Hull, and Hedy Lamarr, stories that have only come to light in recent years, offer such interesting background revelations. Especially then, who would ever expect a tall, awkward and frumpy middle-aged woman of being sharply observant, or any kind of threat? I'm fascinated by these brave and brilliant women, but also by the men who chose to make the most of what was often wasted brainpower.
My question is how much you found out about how JC got involved in espionage in the first place. Who was smart enough to see her potential?
Karen, great point! WWII opened the doors of opportunity to many many women. Julia got her break after taking a train to Washington and then, a girlhood reader of Nancy Drew, got a job at the OSS. Eventually working her way up to head of the secret files and reporting directly to its founder and boss, General William « Wild Bill » Donovan. He recognized and promoted her.
DeleteDiana, I am so exited about your book. I did know that Julia Child was a spy in WWII but know very little about her assignments or her escapades. The movie Julie and Julia was loads of fun to watch, but Julia's own story has to show where all that grit and determination came from. It seems to me that she had quite a sense of humor. Did you find that as you did your research?
ReplyDeleteGrit and determination! You are right, Judy. And such a love for life. I read her two excellent bios and several memoirs of her friends—her bubbling personality shone through.
DeleteOMG! This sounds like a great story. I love watching reruns of Julia's cooking shows and can think of several people who'd like to receive this book for Christmas (including me!).
ReplyDeleteI hope you get your wish. Marianne:-)
DeleteThe Virginia Museum of History and Culture (VMHC) recently had a fantastic exhibit on Julia Child. Her cooking show and her time in France were, of course featured, but her work with the OSS was most interesting. Like most people this was little known to us. It was quite fascinating to learn. Thanks for writing this book. We need to celebrate the women who have made history.
ReplyDeleteMarcie, you are so right. Julia used to say, The war made me. She might never have been allowed to express all her creativity without it.
DeleteWow, Diana - congratulations! Like others, I knew Child had worked for the OSS, but I had no idea she'd been in India and China. Sounds like you were the perfect person to write her story of those years. As an avid cook, I am slightly obsessed with her and can't wait to read your new book. Tell us more about the story itself, please.
ReplyDeleteFor me writing this story has been the adventure of a lifetime. For Julia it was the opening to finding her purpose and life partner.
DeleteI did know that Julia had been a spy. I look forward to reading your book to find out more details.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Brenda. I hope you enjoy!
DeleteWelcome Diana, this sounds like an amazing story--can't wait to read it!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Lucy. It is amazing—Julia’s origin story!
DeleteThis novel sounds way cool! I knew about Julia's espionage work, but to have the story fleshed out in the form of a novel, wow!
ReplyDeleteGillian, Julia herself was way cool! She was so fun « living with » for ten years:-)
DeleteFor once, I'm ahead of the curve! Guess which book is at the top of my TBR pile on my bedside table? I'd read a bio of Julia sometime in the past year. The Secret War of Julia Child popped up on fantastic fiction when I was browsing there recently, and I knew I wanted to read it. And I love the cover!
ReplyDeleteCongrats on being ahead of the curve, Flora:-) I hope you enjoy!
DeleteBravo Diana! I knew she had been a spy for the OSS, but thought it was in Europe. How interesting that she lived in India & China.
ReplyDeleteSo interesting. This theater of war is known as the Forgotten War of Asia. I wanted to highlight the brave Indians, Chinese, all Asians who joined in the fight.
DeleteSomehow I knew about her OSS ties. Wasn't there a story that she kept some kind of weapon in a kitchen drawer throughout her life? Can't remember what it was supposed to be. Looking forward to reading The Secret War of Julia Child. An amazing woman.
ReplyDeleteTruly amazing, Kait! She did learn to shoot as a girl. And could certainly handle a knife;-)
DeleteCongratulations on all of the great reviews and promotion on the book, Diana! I was privileged to read it early from NetGalley and gave it a 5-star review. Well deserved!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much, Margie. Your review meant a lot in help getting my novel out in the world.🙏🏼
DeleteI just finished reading "Editor" a bio about Judith Jones (Editor at Knopf) who was fought to get Anne Frank published when no one else would. She was given a 750+ cookbook by her boss because publishing cookbooks wasn't a top priority for her male bosses. Julia Child was one of three authors listed. But her tv personality made her a household name in the US.
ReplyDeleteI’ve been wanting to read that Judith Jones book! Julia collaborated on her cookbook with two French friends. She was supposed to help make it suitable for Americans. That she did!
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DeleteVery interesting, and how fun to imagine Julia Child's exploits as a spy. We hear a lot about the events of the war in Europe, but not often from the perspective of India or China. Do you have any favorite fact or information you found researching this?
ReplyDeleteThat’s it! There’s been relatively little focus on this theater that is so fascinating yet little known. I learned about an amazing partnership between the US Navy and the Chinese secret service, SACO. Also about conflict between the American and British secret services.
DeleteThis sounds utterly fascinating and compelling. What an interesting facet of this woman's life. That era interests me greatly and recruiting Julia was smart.
ReplyDeleteDear Traveler (love your handle!), this is truly compelling material. Julia was a go-getter, hard worker, and great « asset. »
DeleteI knew Julia was in the OSS. I think I remember reading about Australia but didn't know she was in China and India. Amazing. Did she ever talk bout her service? I can't wait to find this book.
ReplyDeleteTrue to her oath of secrecy, Julia claimed to the end of her days that « she was only a file clerk. » India was where she awoke to food!
DeleteDiana, I remember reading one of your early versions of the first few chapters, and knew you had a winning idea! So great to see the book come to fruition to such acclaim. Brava!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Terry, for the early read and your confidence❣️
DeleteWhen I was a child, my mother often made a cheese soufflé for dinner from vol. 1 of "Mastering the Art of French Cooking," which came out in 1960. I didn't know who Julia Child was then, but the title of my mother's cookbook impressed me. Then, as a young adult, I lived in Cambridge, MA, and Julia was pointed out to me a few times on the street, although I never spoke to her. My respect for her dates back to her impressive-sounding cookbook, but your description of her life makes her into a truly extraordinary woman, Diana. I look forward to reading your book and learning a lot more about her.
ReplyDeleteI had no idea! This is amazing. I have long loved Julia Child and now I adore her even more. I am definitely snapping up your book, Diana. Thank you so much for visiting us today!
ReplyDeleteI read “My Life in France” by Julia Child and Paul Prud’homme, and have been a fan ever since. I was intrigued by her brief reference to having served in the OSS, where she met her husband. When I read of your book in People, Diana, I knew that I had to read it! I’m looking forward to it.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Melinda! There was not much about either of their OSS work. Paul, an artist, was an important mapmaker. Prud’homme (Paul’s nephew) wrote in a book of Paul’s photos that when she said she was only a file clerk, there was a wink in her voice:-)
DeleteWelcome to Jungle Reds, Diana! So wonderful to see you here. I recall meeting you at the local Sisters in Crime events and at mystery conferences. Congratulations on your novel and I look forward to reading your novel about Julia Child.
ReplyDeleteLoved the movie with Meryl Streep and Stanley Tucci as Julia Child and her husband Paul Child. Jane Lynch played Julia's sister. My favorite scenes from the movie was Julia's going out there learning the French language, meeting people and talking to people in France. Julia was interested in living the experiences of being in France.
Before Julia Child died, I remember watching her cooking shows on PBS.
No questions.
Hi Diana. I remember you too! Thanks for writing! Julia had studied French in school but that’s a far cry from speaking it in a French street:-)
DeleteDiana, THE SECRET LIFE OF JULIA CHILD sounds absolutely fantastic! I had heard she was active in the war, but I had no idea she was in southeast Asia. And rest assured, I'm neither a foodie or much of a cook, and I still find everything about her life irresistible.
ReplyDeleteThanks Julia. After all this time I still find her irresistible:-)
DeleteDiana and Rhys, great interview!! Diana, you know how excited I am about this book. I remember so clearly you telling me about when you were just starting to research and I'm so glad you persevered. I can't wait to read it--my copy is on the way!!! Congratulations, my friend!!
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DeleteThanks Debs. It was probably 9 or 10 years ago that I first started talking about it—but only to a very few trusted friends:-)
DeleteWhat a fascinating story about Julia. Who knew?! Enjoyed every word of the interview Rhys and Diana. I absolutely love history and research. It seems as though every place I go I come up with a plot for my next novel, only to realize I still I have to finish the one I'm working on now. While going down the rabbit hole can eat up hours on end, it's wonderful to leave that spiraling hole to learn something new. Never too old to learn. Can't wait to do the deep dive into Diana's novel.
ReplyDeleteThanks Cindy. There is just way too much interesting stuff to write about than we have time for—at least in this life:-)
DeleteHi, Diana! So good to see you here on Jungle Reds today. I'm always intrigued by especially the famous women who have done so much more than they are widely known for. It's like they have a special gene for getting involved in the thick of life. Your new book about Julia Childs is going to pull in so many different readers, from those interested in Julia to those interested in this untapped theater of war interest. I just ordered it, and although my reading is still not up to par, I will be reading The Secret War of Julia Child soon. I hope to see you sometime in the next year, too.
ReplyDeleteKathy! So great to hear from you!! Thanks for your perceptive comments—that’s exactly it.
DeleteHoping to reach Julia fans and those interested in this important but lesser known theater of war. See you next year!
Diane: What a fascinating book! I met and spoke with Julia at a book signing in Boston. We chatted about our pantries! What a delightful woman. I love historical novels and can't wait to read your book!
ReplyDeleteThanks Alicia. You’re so lucky to have met the one and only:-)
DeleteReally can't wait to read this one!
ReplyDeleteThanks so much:-)
DeleteDefinitely a Julia Child fan and knew part of the story. Now I can't wait to read the rest!
ReplyDeleteDead Triss, someone recently said to me—this is the prequel:-)
DeleteLate to the party today. Car issues. I can't wait to read your book, Diana! I knew Julia had served in the OSS, and had met Paul at that time. I did not know about China or India in her sphere. Mom had a friend who flew the hump in WW2 so we'd heard about that. As for China, my great aunt was a missionary there and was interned by the Japanese. I'm eager to read what Julia was up to there. I imagine India blew her away!
ReplyDeletePat! Wow yes, this book will be talking to you! What a fascinating family you have!! These are some of the stories I want people to know about. Thank you.
DeleteWhat a wonderful interview. I am looking forward to reading your book, Diana. Thanks for adding to the stories of strong women in history. (Heather S)
ReplyDeleteHi Heather, exactly what I wanted to get across—Julia is/was a very smart, hard-working, and strong woman!!
DeleteOh, I am so late today! But let me just tell you, Reds and Readers, this is a fantastic book! I was absolutely riveted. Diana, you are brilliant and fabulous and such a rockstar!
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU, HANK!!!
ReplyDelete