Monday, October 14, 2024

Magnificent Mindblowing "Moonflower"

HALLIE EPHRON: I’m happy to report that I’ve just finished watching MOONFLOWER MURDERS. It’s absolutely magically mind-boggling, the way the author Anthony Horowitz (he wrote the novel, a sequel to his MAGPIE MURDER) and the screenplay, braids together two (or is it three?) different narratives – a murder in the past, a novel inspired by that murder, and a murder in the present.

The present day sleuth is the brilliant Lesley Manville, and her “guide” to solving the present-day murder is the sleuth from the *novel* Atticus Pund, played by Tim McMullan, with an assist from the dead author of the novel. With a great ensemble cast, some of whom show up in the multiple time streams.


For those of us who write murder mysteries, it's utterly engrossing. A tour de force. Not something I’d ever attempt but I enjoyed watching (and reading the novel) it. And CHEWING on it after.

So what’s the most complicated plot “braiding” you’ve ever attempted, and how did you keep track??

LUCY BURDETTE: Hallie, John and I have this on our list to watch! (So late to the party.)

I think A POISONOUS PALATE was the most complicated so far because it involved a disappearance/murder in the past, more murders in the present, and two points of view. My usual first person narrator Hayley Snow was there of course, but there was another voice from the past interwoven.


I knew Debs had done this so I asked her advice. And I kept thinking about how Rhys had described printing out the two pieces of a story and laying them out along her hallway to see how they fit together. I think I was trying to do that mentally! It was fun and I’m sure I’ll do something like that again.

RHYS BOWEN: I’ve done several novels that jump between past and present, requiring a lot of thought. But I think the most complicated was my new book, The Rose Arbor.

So many stories intertwined. A young g reporter in the trail of one missing girl finds links to other girls and to her own history. In the book every fact she finds about one missing girl has repercussions to other crimes and to her own life.

Plus I have scenes from WW2 and the voices of all the missing girls. It was like creating a jigsaw puzzle! But so worth it in the end

HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: Oh, I am so with you… I have loved Magpie Murders from moment one, I was just ecstatic over it, a relentless proselytizer, and could not wait for Moonflower. Which I love as well.

When I was in the UK some months ago, to be on a panel with Anthony Horowitz,(I know, swooning) I had a long talk with him, and his wonderful wife, Jill Green, the producer of the shows about it(also I am still swooning. ) Anthony credits her as the brains behind the production.

They were just in the planning stage for how to create Moonflower, and we had a long talk about how that would be presented – – Magpie was so gorgeous and innovative, and as we always say, they wanted to do the same thing, but differently. Which I think they wildly succeeded in!

As for me, I have done very complicated structures—well, let’s say complex, instead of complicated. It’s still very linear when I write it, it’s just that each timeline has its parallel events. The key, I think, is to decide whether you want the parallel points of view to be serial or simultaneous. In other words, does the next point of view continue the story, or show the story you've already heard at the same time.

And I always label the chapters with POV and time:
ELLIE
Now

Because the key is make sure readers are never confused, and that is much more complicated when you consider the limitations of audiobooks.

Hilariously, I have learned that it is much harder for me to write a single point of view with one timeline than it is to write multiple points of view with multiple timelines.

JENN McKINLAY: What a fabulous event, Hank! I’d swoon, too.

I’ve never done multiple timelines but I did braid all three of the ensemble casts from the Cupcake Bakery, London Hat Shop, and Library Lovers mysteries in DEATH IN THE STACKS. Never again. 



But I do remember reading SLEEPING MURDER by Christie (published posthumously) when I was just starting to read mysteries and Miss Marple solves a case from decades before and it made such an impression on me, I still remember the twist. I thought that was some very clever braiding. 

DEBORAH CROMBIE: I am so behind on my watching! I started The Magpie Murders but got distracted--story of my life--and didn't finish it. So naturally I didn't want to start Moonflower until I've seen Magpie.

It's fascinating reading how others handle these braided plots. Hank, I don't think it ever occurred to me to differentiate between serial and simultaneous. On reflecting now, I'd say I use both, but lean towards serial as it moves the plot along. I've done more than a few multiple timeline novels, but I think the most complicated thing I've done is the continuation of a plot thread through four novels--No Mark Upon Her through Garden of Lamentations. That one nearly made me pull my hair out!

HALLIE: So anyone else out there watching MOONFLOWER MURDERS and have you been delighted or perhaps a bit befuddled? I found it a real hang-on-and-enjoy-the-ride.

Or do you have any favorite books that mash up timelines? In different genres, even, since our friends the fantasy writers excel at it.

58 comments:

  1. I haven't seen "Moonflower Murders" yet, but this discussion of mashed up timelines reminds me of Emily St. John Mandel's "Station Eleven" . . . .

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    1. ...which also presaged Covid. Station Eleven the *world* is threatened. Anyone interested in learning more there's a fascinating piece in SLATE on its 10th anniversary, calling it an "eerily prescient sci-fi clssic" https://slate.com/culture/2024/09/station-eleven-book-emily-st-john-mandel-tv.html

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  2. I was caught up on the Moonflower episodes, but now need to watch the latest one. Did you watch Magpie Murders and/or read either of the books? It has helped me better figure out what is going on and thus enjoy this show more.

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    1. That's the risk of raeding multiple timelines is losing track. Not something I can read or watch at bedtime. And even then I sometimes feel like I have to take notes. It flip between timelines so nimbly that it's easy to get lost.

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  3. Yes, loved Magpie and Moonflower for all the reasons already stated. I wrote one murder from the past being solved in the present and found it satisfying, but it was only from one POV. I've written two multiple POV books - it's a challenge when you're used to writing through only one character's eyes. The Reds who do it really pull it off well! (I loved both Poisonous Palate and Rose Arbor - well done, Lucy and Rhys.)

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    1. You're so right, a single viewpoint is hard enough, and I find when I teach writing that it's the new fiction writer's most common stumbling block. If you can't write effective single viewpoint then your multiple viewpoint will be a confusing mess. So why not "omniscient"?? NO NO NO.

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    2. Edith, wasn't Murder in a Cape Cottage a dual timeline? There certainly was a cold case at the center of that story.

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  4. I think the best weaving that I have ever read is my current book series. It is by Julia Chapman and set in the Dales. I just finished book 7, and suspect that there are only 8 in the series (I have not googled it). It took a while to get me into the book, but after that, I could not read fast enough, and struggled to not just grab the next book in the series because I was hooked!
    You may think, ‘but there are lots of good authors like that’, suggesting Louise Penny and Elizabeth George. Both authors carry plots and themes through various books as do many others here. However, this Dale series fools me every time with the case at hand, but more importantly, all of a sudden has woven such important insignificant tidbits that I glossed over as just interesting, into a coming together in book 7. There are just a few more threads to pick up, so I am killing myself and stalling another book or two in between before I pick up Book 8.
    I will add, that if this does not end in Book 8, that I will be annoyed, because then I will feel that she is just playing me like a cat.
    Happy Thanksgiving to all Canadians. We had deep-fried turkey last night. Well, that was what it was supposed to be – the ‘chef’ cooked it too hot fat, for too long so that when it came out, it was not even a carcass. This could NOT even been used as a prop for Chevy Chase! There was a lot of scrambling to find a meat for supper, but the poutine and pies were delicious. Someone put cinnamon in the turnip – just saying in case you think it might be tasty – not! As soon as everyone departs this morning, I may find the ‘squirreled’ slice of pumpkin pie and just relax….

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    1. What a great recommendation! Thanks, Margo.

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    2. Thanks for the suggestion! Being half Yorkshire, I will definitely look for the series (Goodreads shows 9)

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  5. We just started watching Moonflower Murders. Love Atticus Pund (husband: didn't he die in the last book?) I'm enjoying the ride: the setting, the vintage cars, the actress's clothes.

    I like a braided timeline if the point of view characters, location, and date are identified.

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    1. He did not die in the last book... and he's a *fictional* character (in a fictional tale ... gaaaaa)

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  6. Hallie, I rarely watch TV and haven't read Horowitz' books so I can not comment on his work. I can say that I loved The Rose Arbor, A Poisonous Palate, Death in the Stacks and all of Debs' many books with dual timelines. But I must say that the wait between books from No Mark Upon Her through Garden of Lamentations was sheer delicious anticipation. Amazing!

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  7. Hallie, I started watching Moonflower Murders after Hank mentioned it on Facebook, and I was blown away—but I’ll admit, I was a bit thrown by the clever transitions between the present-day investigation and the fictional story. For example, a character from the fictional past opens a car door, and suddenly, someone in the present-day timeline gets into a car. It takes a moment to catch on, which ties perfectly to Hank’s point: what works smoothly in a book can be tricky to translate into audio—or even video. After finishing the available episodes, I jumped into Magpie Murders, which was brilliant and helped clarify some things in Moonflower Murders. Now I’m re-watching Moonflower and enjoying it even more. I highly recommend watching Magpie Murders first. I often weave mysteries within mysteries in my own books, but I’ve never attempted multiple points of view. Lucy Burdette’s A Poisonous Palate handles that beautifully, and I’m definitely picking up Rhys Bowen’s The Rose Arbor to see how she does it.

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    1. Ang, you'll love The Rose Arbor. It is an incredible story and I can't imagine how much talent it took to craft it. It is my favorite of Rhys's stand alones!

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    2. I agree, Ang - it helps to have watched Magpie Murders first. As you say, it can be confusing when "a character from the fictional past opens a car door, and suddenly, someone in the present-day timeline gets into a car"... but when you're "in" on it, it's so much fun.

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  8. I don't think I subscribe to whatever service has the Magpie/Moonflower Murders so I have completely missed it on TV. I'll have to read the books. Oh darn. :)

    Didn't Julia also do a dual timeline novel - maybe the last one. I think it was three, now that I'm remembering. I thought it was really well done.

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    1. I watched it on PBS (I contribute so I get PBS Passport)... I think it's also on Amazon.

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    2. Hmm, I do donate to our local PBS station, so I wonder... And I do subscribe to Amazon Prime.

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    3. Liz, I did a dual timeline in OUT OF THE DEEP I CRY, with one story taking place in the present and one going backwards into the past, from 1970 to 1920-something. And my last book had three timelines, one in the fifties, one in the seventies, and one present day.

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    4. I watch it in the regular PBS station broadcast.

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    5. The 1952/1972/now timeline in HID FROM OUR EYES was terrific, Julia! Russ as a suspect in his twenties and then as a police chief investigating a similar crime works SO well.

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  9. Because we donate to PBS every year we also get a Passport to streaming. I'd never used it until Magpie Murders, so I've now watched both series.

    Everything about it is brilliant, from the amazing cast, to the sets and costumes, to the scenery, to the twisty, braided plots. I'd never read any Anthony Horowitz before, nor heard of Tim McMullan, but I have long been a fan of Lesley Manville. The combination catches fire!

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    1. Karen, may I suggest you also check out Professor T on Passport? It is an odd show but my husband and I have enjoyed it a great deal. Season 3 just released, and like so many shows now, each season is very short, so it wouldn't take too long to enjoy them all. DEFINITELY a show that must be watched in order. (We really don't use our Passport much, either, this show was a real find!)

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    2. Thanks, Susan! I was just thinking about what to watch next last night.

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    3. Great suggestion, Susan - I love Professor T

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    4. Professor T is one of our favorites. I think it is shown in the US on PBS stations.

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  10. I've read Magpie (loved it), but not Moonflower and haven't seen the series. I'm not much of a TV watcher.

    Connie Willis's Blackout and All Clear come to mind as examples of blending plot lines together. Her "present time" is the future and to do research, historians time travel to the past, specifically to WWII Britain ==one to St. Paul's cathedral during the Blitz, one to the coast where they participate in the Dunkirk evacuation, and several others, So interesting pulling together the imagined future and the past in a really gripping and memorable way.

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  11. I am not a writer but I just had to chime in here to fangirl over Anthony Horowitz! I absolutely loved both Magpie Murders and Moonflower Murders when I read them, and I was absolutely enchanted by how they were adapted to work on screen. The flow of the books was a lot different, and I couldn't imagine how it could be translated to screen. (Oh me of little faith!)

    I have also thoroughly enjoyed his Hawthorne series. I can't imagine any other writer pulling off the premise of these books. Horowitz has inserted himself, his real-world self -- as an unwilling Watson to a current day Sherlock type investigator. His character, who shares Horowitz' real background and writing credits, follows this surly, moderately unpleasant (but brilliant) guy around and records how he solves crimes, always managing to make himself look clueless throughout.

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    1. Oooh, I love the Hawthorne books, too. That would be even harder to dramatize. What I love about Horowitz is that he loves all the "old chestnuts" of crime fiction and uses them in such hilariously innovative ways.

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  12. I am totally addicted to watching Moonflower Murders on Masterpiece Theatre! As I was to watching Magpie Murders. The venues and set designs are outstanding. The colorful black and blue intro/title sequence with its crossovers from past to present and unforgettable music is so creative. And Lesley Manville is perfect for the role of Susan Ryland; she is such a remarkable actress. And who else but Tim McMullan could play the part of Atticus Pund; his delivery is so calm and deliberate and his quiet and distinguished voice is as smooth as velvet. Some blogs back I mentioned that his character's name was one of the most interesting I had ever come across in reading mystery novels...the other being Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot. I think it is because many of the characters had difficulty pronouncing these two detective surnames correctly. Atticus Pund corrected many individuals along the way making it even more fun. Last night's episode was a real head turner with Atticus Pund telling Detective Inspector Chubb that he was the one who murdered John Spencer. Say what?! Now eagerly waiting for the last episode next week to pull everything together. Plus I stopped reading Moonflower Murders that I had started prior to the airing of the story so I would not get ahead of the episodes. I have several of Anthony Horowitz's novels so I am a bit jealous, Hank Phillippi Ryan...lol....that you were on a panel with him in the UK and had a chance to meet and talk with him and his wife Jill Green. ;)

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    1. Awww...xoxoo Yes, I have to say they are absolutely as cool--even cooler--than you might imagine.

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  13. I loved Magpie Murders and am enjoying The Moonflower Murders as well. Very clever weaving of plot lines. I love Atticus Pund!

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    1. Yes, Pund is the quintessential poker-faced brilliant PI. Knows all. Tells some.

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    2. He's poker-faced, but he has that little smile dancing around the edges. I love it!

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  14. As a reader, I really appreciate it when an author like Hank heads the chapter Ellie and Now, which helps me follow the story.

    Our family subscribe to PBS Passport streaming services, which means we get to watch on the computer. Haven't had a chance to watch the sequel to Magpie Murders yet since October is such a busy month with several weddings.

    Favorite novels with timelines: the First MAISIE DOBBS novel by Jacqueline Winspear and the Discovery of Witches series by Deborah Harkness. The Discovery of Witches storyline lets me know ahead of time as a reader that there will be time travel.

    It can be jarring as a reader when the timeline switches back to the past years or to the future without the year nor the name of the character. Sometimes I miss who the POV is because it is not clear. Perhaps it is how my brain works. LOL.

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    1. I agree, Diana - confusion is not the reader's friend. When the reader is confused about which character has the POV, that's bad writing. Something a good editor should have caught. No, it's not "you."

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    2. Thank you, Hallie.

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  15. I so rarely have the tv on that I might as well not have one. So, I haven't watched Magpie Murders or Moonflower Murders. Nor have I read the books. One of these days, I tell myself; it's not that I lack interest. My favorite book to movie translation of a complicated story has to be Tolkien's LOTR and Peter Jackson's movies of the books. My sister gifted me the extended version of the movies, which has wonderful discussions with Peter Jackson and one of his writing partners, Philippa Boyens (the third partner was Fran Walsh, who chose not to participate in the making-of videos). Tolkien wrote each set of characters' journeys as a complete section of each book. Then you read the next section to find out what the other characters were/had been doing. Jackson and his co-authors essentially braided together these stories, intercutting scenes so that we could follow Frodo and Sam, Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli, etc.

    While definitely not in the same class as Tolkien, nor indeed any of the JR writers, most of my fantasy novels braid together separate characters' journeys, as well as past and present. It's just how the stories unravel as I write them, but it can take some hard work to make sure the end result is not confusing. Thank heavens for willing beta readers!

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    1. Here, here! I second that bravo for beta readers. It's always amazing to me how easy it is to see flaws in someone ELSE'S writing while I'm blind to it in my own.

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  16. We Love Moonflowers Murders! Alicia Kullas

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  17. Well, now I have something else to watch! Two somethings, actually. Magpie Murders and Moonflower Murders. What an intriguing concept. I haven't braided in my own writing, yet, but I suspect I will eventually. I've a story perking that will need it.

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  18. I have a few PBS shows I want to watch that I've been putting off. Our newish LG smart TV doesn't pick up PBS Passport. What the heck? I will have to climb up to the third floor to watch the TV that does. Those stairs are like Mt Everest to me. I loved Magpie Murders and I'm sure I'll feel the same about the Moonflower Murders.

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  19. Paula B. here: So, two of my favorite writers popped into my kindle from preorders, on the same day! Hooray!! I’ve had a fabulous few evenings just reading. I finished Jenn’s fabulous new one and now am reading Paula Munier’s latest - awesome and now the problem. “Just one more chapter, please, eyes. You can do it.” Well, I’m reading it really sloooow because I’m at a temporary loss as to what to read next and there Ya Go Here. I just downloaded Magpie Murders and Moonflower Murders to my kindle. More reading fun coming up. Thanks for the information. And BTW, both books are Kindle Unlimited, therefore, no additional cost. So, Jenn and Paula, you have two books to come up with your next new ones so I can again get lost in the perfection of fiction. Write on, right on.

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  20. I'm sorry I missed adding to the conversation, because I love me a complicated structure/timeline. I've done novels with two and three timelines, mentioned in my comment to Liz above. I've done a novel with a present day framing structure and flashbacks for all eight of the viewpoint characters. (I also like lots of POVs.) And on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've written two ticking clock books, one that takes place in 24 hours and one where every deadline explodes at the end of the week.

    As for MOONFLOWER MURDERS, Amazon keeps suggesting it for me, and now I'll give it a try!

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  21. My PBS station still has one more episode to air - next Sunday. I'm bummed because I'm going to be out of town and don't want to wait any longer to see what exactly is going on. Enjoyed Magpie Murders as well.

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  22. And what Jill and Anthony I discussed, interestingly, was--well, they were still in the very early stages of it, and I asked whether they were going to use the same conceits and production design, of dual roles for the same actors, and the strands of the now, and the before, and the fiction-- or whether they were going to handle it in a different way,
    SInce one of the draws of Magpie was how absolutely unique it was, did they feel that they were wedded to doing Moonflower exactly the same way.
    And they said that was exactly what they had been discussing, and that at that point they were in disagreement about it. To do something totally new, or keep the Magpie style.
    I love the essential compromise they made--because in this version , Susan Ryeland has accepted that Atticus Pund is in her life, right? And that there's some sort of "magic," whether it's all in her head or not. Where in Magpie, it was all new to her, and she had to decide.
    SO it seems to me that they did the same thing for the viewer. In Moonflower, we viewers already know the deal, and we accept it, too-- and go from there.

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  23. I now have both books on my Kindle. But should I read or watch first???

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    1. Ahhh....hmm. I could go either way first. MAGPIE is completely differently structured in the book. And you will see why. And that's why, well, thinking about this, in my opinion, READING first is the better way to see the genius of the adaptation.

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  24. I've used two points of view in all four of my books and quite a few flashbacks to the 1960s in SONS AND BROTHERS, but I wouldn't even attempt the kinds of complications Horowitz revels in.

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  25. I have loved, loved, LOVED (Hank!) Magpie and Moonflower Murders, both books and shows, as well as everything else written by Anthony Horowitz. Also have been (and still am) a huge fan of Midsomer Murders and Foyle's War. Another favorite double timeline (or is it just time travel?) book was Time and Again by Jack Finney. Anybody familiar with it? The man could write humor and suspense like no one else. It was optioned for a film years ago, but was never made. I'm still waiting! Lenita

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  26. I am so adding Moonflower Murders to my to be watched list! Thanks, Hallie!

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  27. I have now seen Magpie Murders three times and I pick up something new with each viewing. Needless to say, I loved it. Am currently loving Moonflower Murders and am sure I will watch it again. He is such a brilliant writer! Have Rose Arbor on my TBR, so now am more excited to read it than I was.

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