JENN McKINLAY: It was November of 2019 and the Jungle Red Writers were meeting at Bouchrcon in Dallas. I think this is the only time all seven of us have been together in my eight years as a Red. Miracles happen!
We were having this group picture taken:
Hank doesn't love this one, no idea why...lol.
Anyway, somehow we got into a conversation with our photographers, two very nice gents somewhere in their 30's/40's - honestly, I have no idea, I'm a terrible judge of age - and I think one of our Reds got squashed (Julia?) and muttered something about it feeling like a mammogram.
The photographer dudes clearly had no idea why we thought this was so funny and being the informative types we are, we then described in great detail to these two horrified males what all a mammogram entails. Boob meets glass plates and smash!
Y'all I can still see their faces. Yes, it was that comical and I still laugh when I think about it. Also, I believe we did them and the women in their lives an invaluable favor that day.
Side note: This might be on my mind because I'm having one today.
After that encounter, it occurred to me that we ladies do the world a terrible disservice in not letting our co-creators of the species know exactly what being a female of humankind entails. As the mom of two boys, I was pretty blunt about body parts and how they work (both male and female - my sex ed talk lives on in the family lore to this day) but you never know if they're really getting it, you know?
Exhibit A:
How about you, Reds and Readers, do the men in your life know how the mysterious female body works? And if you're one of our male readers, how do you rate your knowledge of the female body?
Relatively well, I think . . . I've never actually asked 😊
ReplyDeleteProbably wise, Joan.
DeleteIt seems necessary to ask the reverse as well. Do the women in a man’s life understand how his body works? Elisabeth
ReplyDeleteGreat question!
DeleteWay better, in my case!
DeleteMine as well. (Selden)
DeleteI'd say most women do because a) man parts are less complicated :) and b) as a parent, you have to know all about your kid's stuff regardless of gender
DeleteI know my husband better than he does and try to keep him up to date on the latest. My husband reads my face very well and at least knows when it is important enough to ask about something!
ReplyDeleteSounds attentive!
DeleteThat's a wonderful trait.
DeleteI was teaching childbirth classes in my living room when my sons were young but old enough to understand the flip chart of how the uterus grows during pregnancy and where the baby comes out. Now they are both happily married and I assume doing the usual intimate activities (although I do NOT ask), so I think the answer would be yes. I've also talked about mammograms to Hugh. He shudders but listens...
ReplyDeleteMy own youth was a different story. Sex was not spoken about at home. "Health" class in ninth grade was taught by new teacher and football coach Mr. Beverage, who was fresh out of college. He turned bright red when he taught the pitiful sex ed section, and we all came out of that semester believing you could catch syphilis from kissing. A few years later, I had to read Masters and Johnson Explained on the sly in the public library to understand the mechanics of it all. I eagerly learned in person a year later. ;^)
DeleteLOL. Hub's face when I give him the blow by blow of a pap smear :)
DeleteI can see from that video most of us fail miserably in educating our men folk. That was ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteJonathan was around 7 when he asked about where babies come from. We got a book out of the library and Irwin read it to him. "How'd it go?" I asked. "He hid under the covers."
Poor baby and poor daddy
DeleteLOL!
DeleteGreat topic. I remember when my young male relatives had children’s books about where babies came from. I think that was the extent of their knowledge.
ReplyDeleteRegarding mammograms, even if I’m a female, I didn’t know until I actually went through the experience of my first mammograms!
We still don’t know much about the mysterious workings of women’s bodies. For example, only 20 percent of medical schools teach about menopause!
Someone asked a great question about the reverse- how much do women know about men’s bodies?
That is shocking! Especially given that menopause causes so many changes. Oy.
DeleteTMI! TMI! TMI!
ReplyDeletePauvre Jerry
DeleteJerry, at least an uncomfortable conversation. Elisabeth
DeleteLOL!!!
DeleteSex ed was woefully inadequate in our schools. I had hoped they were teaching this at school but the video shows otherwise.
ReplyDeleteAnd my mother did not teach me much either. Just a bit when my period started. Nothing else.
My dad knew nada about female body stuff.
Grace, I hope that our generation was better than our parents' generations for treating sex ed like a normal part of growing up. My mother was positively Victorian, and her mother was genuinely Victorian! Like your folks, I don't think parents who immigrated from countries around the world were better at revealing the secrets of the human body than my mother and grandmother were. But I do hope that the generations after them, feel that sex education is necessary.
DeleteMy mom was great about it. Very matter of fact. My dad? No.
DeleteFor several years my husband taught 7th grade biology, which included a unit on human anatomy and a short one on sex ed. He would recognize everything except perhaps the speculum, as that was not a part of the curriculum (and not something I would keep at home!). He certainly heard from me about the tortilla press aspect of mammograms. I don't know how good a job I did with our son and daughter. Surely somewhat better than my well-meaning mother did with me around 1970, but both also had sex ed in schools. (Selden)
ReplyDeleteSelden, remembering from consciousness raising groups of mid-1970s: distribution of speculums, so that women could look at their own vaginas. I don’t remember in which moving house experience mine disappeared! Elisabeth
DeleteI was part of that. We had a newsprint copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves, and took pictures of each other's cervixes!
DeleteAh, I had the paperback copy of Our Body, Ourselves around the house. I never did the look-at-the-vagina thing but read about it. (Perhaps my ten-years-older sister did.) The consciousness raising groups were shown very amusingly in the fabulous short series about NYC and women in the late 1960s, GOOD GIRLS REVOLT.
DeleteIt's surprising to me that decades after the sexual revolution, so many people are still clueless about basic stuff. Oy.
DeleteMy teenage son marked PMS week on the kitchen calendar every month. My daughter and I were in sync. Jenn, I've long said every male member of Congress should have to take and pass a female anatomy class.
ReplyDeleteExcellent idea! And they are suspended until they have proven they know what's what!
DeleteMargaret, I totally agree. Some of their statements during abortion debates have been unbelievably ignorant. (Selden)
DeleteExcellent idea to take and pass a female anatomy class!
DeleteAgreed!!! And also go through a simulated birthing experience.
DeleteThe videos are embarrassing! Jenn, good luck with the mammo today, and good on ya for having them done.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is a pretty standard American male, who sticks his fingers in his ears whenever any of this "icky" stuff comes up. Never mind he's had two wives, a sister, two daughters and a stepdaughter. I doubt I can change him, at this point. But my grandson... fairly sure his nurse educator mother will have taught him more than the men know!
Wasn't it? I felt particularly bad for the wife who was a gynecologist.
DeleteI was in the first class at my school (8th graders) who received sex ed as part of health class. It was taught by the wrestling coach. But all these years later, I bow to Mr. Wittibslager--he was calm, thorough, taught us both male and female bodies, childbirth, efficacy of birth control methods, and most importantly, tried to drill into us the meaning of consent, long long before that was a buzzword. I used his lessons when I talked about female and male bodies and sex with my two youngest nephews--because sadly, the quality of what passes for sex ed nowadays is pathetic.
ReplyDeleteCoach Wittibslager was a remarkable man!
DeleteThat story gives me hope!!!
DeleteI taught 4-H with our local vet. There were 4 sections, offered as one a year, and then the next until the cycle began again. One was reproduction. The kids were 10-21 years old. The vet section was always hands on – roll out intestines down the drive-way, anyone. No one squelched at reproduction – it was the favourite class. We told parents that anything was on the table – animal or people. If they asked, we would talk about it. Pigs giving birth was always fun – 11 little piglets all trying to be first out, and not polite about waiting in line.
ReplyDeleteNow for the anecdote. Ingrid (vet) had had a long day, and was late coming to our house. She was sooo tired and barely able to function, but bravely was pressing out. We were doing birthing. Things were going well, with our cardboard goat, and a normal birth (result a Kermit the Frog – a face only a mother could love.) Then a breech birth – a lot of turning, twisting, but eventually a bear was delivered with a lot a maneuvering. Then came a multiple birth, two naked babies! Ingrid needed a break, a tea and a pee. She left the room in preparation for the C-section.
This room was a large open area, and in the corner was a very large bird cage with lots of finches. Often the cats would sit on top of the cage (you could hear the finches chirp – stupid cat, and then move on with their life.) We also had 15 cats, one of which was Parker as in Nosy. He was stupider than a post and drag-aroundable. He was on the birdcage. One of the kids put his finger to the sshhh-position. All the kids were semi-silent and watching. He stood on the arm of the couch, grabbed Parker, and stuffed him inside the goat. Being Parker, he just lay inside the box quietly and unseen.
Ingrid comes back – eyes at half-mast she is so tired. She explains the mechanics of a c-section, and then goes to the ‘goat’s’ side, takes out her scalpel and proceeds to talk her way through the operation. Then she puts her hand blindly inside the cardboard skin wall, and into the pillowcase uterus… and screams. She pulls out Parker (remember all the previous births have been inert, and not warm). The kids hoot! By now, even she is awake, and laughing, and laughing, and laughing.
Not ever will any of those kids forget reproduction!
Good luck on the squeeze.
What a great story! I loved the way you taught birthing - all kids should be learning this. Is it too much to wish for that you have it on film?
DeleteOmigod, Margo, you are our most reliable comic relief in the comment section!
DeleteHa ha ha ha ha! That's fabulous.
DeleteI don't think The Hubby could point to various parts of the anatomy, but he's at least knowledgeable about the basics. And yes, he's heard about how a mammogram is done and winced.
ReplyDeleteMy son? No clue. He didn't want to hear the gory details when he was young and talking about sex with mom is "weird." LOL I assume his girlfriend has or is educating him.
LOL!
DeleteAnd all of our million years on this blog, this is the best post there has ever been. I am not kidding this is hilarious – – – I have no idea. I honestly have no idea what my husband knows. Which proves how ridiculous it is. I’ve never had the task of explaining the female systems or workings to any one, now that I think of it. My props to all who have attempted that.
ReplyDeleteThe Jimmy Kimmel video is priceless!
I’m going to go ask my husband about mammograms right now. We’ll see how he responds and I will report back.
LOL! Go, Jonathan!
DeleteI answered my sons questions in detail and used correct terminology. We had some great conversations. Clearly I hadn't covered everything though, because he came home (age 10 or so) from a couple of days of Scout camp and told me that he only "jerked off twice". I managed not to burst out laughing and asked him if he knew what that meant. He thought it meant having bowel movements. I still laugh thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious. (Selden)
DeleteToo funny. Reminds me of when a terrified friend "confessed" to me when we were 15 and had just had a nun scare us about masturbation that she was doing this unknowingly. Upon questioning it turned out she was having a non-period discharge, which she assumed is what masturbation was. Because, you know: menstruation/masturbation. Sounds like kind of the same thing, right? Don't ask me how I knew better; I just connected the dots differently.
DeleteGillian, you made me snort my tea!
DeleteI. Am. Dying. LOLOLOLOLOL!
DeleteHysterical and rather typical. Thanks for the chuckle. (Heather S)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo children, no males in my home. I vaguely remember the girls and boys being separated for a short part of a school day when I was in fifth or six grade. The female teacher talked about menstrual cycles, I have no idea what the male teacher talked about.
ReplyDeleteThe male teacher probably talked about avoiding discussions about the menstrual cycle.
Delete100% Jerry! I remember my math teacher had to give the talk. Poor Mr. Mead. Lovely man, did a good job, but I still remember being mystified that my body would betray me like that!
DeleteMy gynecologist told me this story: one of our state legislators was trying to get an older male colleague to agree to vote for her proposed bill about including mammograms in basic health insurance coverage. He balked, saying, “Then women will be wanting to get one every month.” She politely asked if he knew what a mammogram entailed. She then described it in great detail (I believe the phrase “like laying topless on a garage floor and having a car drive over your breasts” may have been used to describe how it feels). The man blanched, coughed and told her she had his vote!
ReplyDeleteMy husband went with me to every OB-GYN visit when I was pregnant so he definitely knows what a speculum looks like! (He was also the only father-to-be at the childbirth class who was annoyed that the video showing C-sections wasn’t zoomed in closer!) (And on the flip side, he had to tell me when I was changing our son’s diaper, to be careful because “the penis isn’t supposed to be bent that way”! And in our later years, he had to find me a drawing to understand exactly where the prostate is…)
Good luck with your mammo today, Jenn. — Pat S
Love that analogy!! And BTW the one up side of aging is you do eventually stop having to have them.
Deletegood luck with your mammo, Jenn! recent news show there is a new way to test WITHOUT using the squishy kind of mammogram machine. perhaps it is still too new?
DeleteYou've got a good one, Pat. Hub was the same - attended every class with me. Showed me how not to get sprayed when the hooligans needed changing - LOL!
DeleteMy men are well informed (my son grew up with three sisters who discussed menstrual cramps etc ant the dinner table) Unlike some Congressmen who thought you could reach the uterus via the digestive system!
ReplyDeleteOh my goodness, Rhys, I hadn't heard that about the congressmen! (Selden)
DeleteOr the ones who thought raped women could "shut down" the process of impregnation. By their magic uterus, presumably.
DeleteJust a thought : perhaps there could be a fantasy / horror / mystery novel where the rapists automatically disappear as humans and become (creatures) prey to dangerous animals in the jungle.....
DeleteLOL!!! Seriously, Rhys. It boggles how uneducated these dudes can be.
DeleteHow did your pancake-making session go today, Jenn? Hope it wasn’t too painful and you get a good report!
ReplyDeleteHeading there in a bit! Thank you!
DeleteI remember driving my daughter and her friend (a boy), age maybe 6 or 7, and overhearing her explaining quite lucidly how babies are made. Obviously hearing this for the first time, he kept saying "Nah... No... No way..." She did me proud. The boy's mother never properly thanked us.
ReplyDeleteLOL - that's hilarious, Hallie. She should have baked you cookies at the very least.
DeleteI think my son knew more than my husband does. I learned more about my female workings from when I was going through my infertility problems than I had ever known before. That would have been in my mid twenties. I do remember my mother telling me not to go too far with a boy, and I wondered if she meant Cincinnati or Louisville.
ReplyDeleteKathy, thanks for the chuckle! (Flora)
Deletereminded me of stories I heard as a child about "bad" women and I thought they meant women who were like cartoon evil villains who wanted to blow up train tracks. LOL
DeleteHa ha ha ha - Cincinnati or Louisville. I'm dead!
DeleteKathy, thank you for the laugh!
DeleteThat video is hilarious! I'm the oldest daughter and I never got "the talk." I did get a film in sixth grade about the onset of menstruation. Mom couldn't attend and I went home and told her it was about administration or something like that. At least my younger sisters got a book. I'm still waiting for mine.
ReplyDeleteMy mom checked out about a half dozen books explaining menstruation and everything. I remember being bored and wanting to go out to play so perhaps I was a little too young? But I have an older sister who filled in the blanks for me! — Pat S
DeleteSiblings do fill in the gaps. I told my brother everything and he was duly horrified on my behalf.
DeleteThe video cracked me up! But it's also pretty scary... My husband's dad was a doctor and I think he was taught all the basics when he was about six and he's never been the least bit squeamish about "lady parts." My analogy for a mammogram has always been, "imagining squishing your boob under a closing garage door." Good thing they are not nearly as bad as they used to be!
ReplyDeleteAgreed!
DeleteI'm laughing hysterically. I'm quite sure hubs has only a sketchy idea of the female side of life, but we're of an age and our sex ed class in the Catholic school I attended consisted of one lesson with the famous words of "Mary knew her biology" and "If you have any questions, I have some movies you can watch." No one wanted anything further on the subject.
ReplyDeleteLOL, Kait.
DeleteMy son’s 4th grade teacher and he asked me how the baby comes out. His little sister eagerly ran in to hear the story too. I went into an age appropriate discussion of the female anatomy and took out a doll to show them where the baby came out. He said”oh good, I thought they would have to cut her open”. End of lesson.
ReplyDeleteVery logical young man!
Delete4th grade teacher had a baby^
ReplyDeleteThis was in an email from a friend and seems to go along with our conversation today: "So it seems that all of us are now female. In Trump's executive order yesterday, establishing the two permissible sexes under the law, he defined female as a person who, at conception, had the large reproductive cells. And males as persons who, at conception, had small reproductive cells. Since everyone, at conception, has large reproductive cells (male traits don't start to emerge for weeks), we are all now females! Trump is now the first woman President!"
ReplyDelete*snort* And this is why science matters.
DeleteGillian B, sometimes it is other’s ignorance that brings bliss. Thanks for the smile, Elisabeth
DeletePoor Spencer was subject to many, many talks about female anatomy, cycles AND sexuality, much to his embarrassment at the time and his gratitude today.
ReplyDeleteThe best "man not understanding how women work" came from my husband. After seven years at a largely male law firm, he went to work in the legal department of Maine's largest bank. The legal offices were physically located in the middle of the HR floor, which, as often happens, was about 90% female. One day he came home and asked, "Why is it that when men get older, their hair gets gray, but not women? Is it some sort of hormonal thing?" Reader, my husband had been seeing me get my hair colored since I was 27! And yet still somehow thought a magical woman hormone was keeping his coworkers Chestnut Brown #2 and Ash Blonde #5.
Ha ha - if only!
DeleteWhen I was pregnant with our son at 38, I decided (in consultation with my husband) that I'd have amniocentesis (amniotic fluid removed from the uterus to be tested). My husband came along to give me support. I was fine--he fainted. I guess I should have told him more about it beforehand!
ReplyDeleteOh, poor Hubs.
DeleteWhen I was in university (67-70), I was the youngest of the 6 of us in our group. There were code words (I have to go to the pharmacy for a box of chocolates (kotex, only product and large as a pillow or whistles (tampax - just new at the time and thought that it destroyed your virginity). It was usually whispered and embarrassingly purchased and sneaked into the top drawer of the dresser and we crawled up the wall to the bathroom when needed. After we became used to each other, there would often be a chit chat about something sexual - keep in mind we were all virgins at graduation. Because I was the youngest, I was always sent to the closet lest I hear, so there I went - and listened. When there was a pause, I would usually answer the query - through the door. They gave up eventually and let me in the room. My mother told me nothing but would silently leave yet another Kotex pamphlet at the top of my bed, and since I loved Biology, I would read them voraciously, and so knew a lot more that the rest. Later, we all read The Joy of Sex - wow!
ReplyDeleteIn Nova Scotia, we get free mammograms every 2 years forever. The province sends out a reminder, you call the registration number for a local scan, and they send back the result to you and your doctor. The entire process at the scan is less than 10 mins - Jack reads the morning paper while he waits. He never asks about it! The province also sends out a poop-on-a-stick test for colon cancer every two years for your birthday. Same thing - free and results are sent to you and your doctor. This one has the beauty of not hurting, and able to be done in the privacy of your own bathroom.
Margo, I needed to find a new gynecologist (since mine had switched to specializing in infertility treatment) so in December 2023 I went in for a Pap smear. I was literally sitting in the paper gown when the doctor came in and told me that since I was over 65, my insurance wouldn’t cover the cost for the exam because they are no longer required for women past the age of 65. I said to go ahead anyway. Later I spoke with my older sister (who is over 70) and she said her doctor told her “you can stop getting Pap smears when you decide you’re ready to die. Otherwise, there is no age limit.” — Pat S
DeleteMargo - that's hilarious! And Pat, yes, pap smears for life!
DeleteI wanted to share this information as it was pertinent in my family and may help someone you all love. I had breast cancer 20+ years ago in my late 30's. I found it and the mammogram/ultra sound confirmed it. My husband was diagnosed with breast cancer in August 2020. Men are 1% of all breast cancer patients. Men do not know to check themselves so they go in and are Stage 3 and Stage 4. When they are diagnosed which means it has spread from the breast to other parts of the body-this situation is not good. They generally only have four to five years of afterwards even with chemotherapy and radiation.
ReplyDeleteMy new daughter in law has decided that my son is not going to be in the male 1% category so he is getting mammograms. 8 - )
Good daughter in law!
Delete