Friday, January 31, 2025

What We're Writing: Debs Says Sometimes Authors Just Gotta Have Fun

DEBORAH CROMBIE: I have been amusing myself in the latest scene in Kincaid/James #20. I finally have moved (inched) the plot along to scenes I have always intended to set in Richmond. I had been drawn to this western part of Greater London (Richmond, Twickenham, Teddington Lock,)  along the course of the Thames, since before the huge popularity of streaming series Ted Lasso. No, I haven't actually been working on this dratted book since 2020! But we didn't have Apple TV then and I don't think we watched the first season of Ted Lasso until maybe summer of 2022, by which time the book was definitely percolating.

For those who haven't seen the series, an American football coach is hired to coach a failing English soccer team called the Richmond Greyhounds, and while not all the purported Richmond scenes were filmed in Richmond (several of the exterior locations were actually filmed in Notting Hill) some of the real Richmond locations became iconic. 

Ted's fictional flat is in the little alleyway that Gemma walks through in the scene below. The pub known as The Crown and Anchor in the series is actually The Prince's Head, below.




Richmond Green, and these iconic red phone boxes, were used repeatedly in all three seasons.






Of course, since the series, The Prince's Head has become a fan destination--and the pub has made the most of it!

Here I am in the "Ted Lasso corner."




Having just eaten what looks like a massive plate of triple-fried chips and something--fish, maybe? Some fellow Ted Lasso fans (from Australia!) took the pic.

In this snippet, Gemma samples the chips. She's following leads in Richmond with her new detective sergeant, Davey Butler, who she suspects might not be all he appears to be.

They found a spot in a multi-story carpark in Richmond town center and walked towards the Green. “There are a couple of pubs to choose from,” Davey Butler told Gemma. Once out of the car, he seemed more relaxed, almost jaunty as he led the way around a small church and then through narrow paved alleys with little shops and boutiques.

“I don’t know Richmond,” said Gemma. “Bit on the far side of London for me, growing up.”

“I came here a good bit. Night out with the lads, impress a date. Bit pricey for drinking, though,” Butler added, and Gemma liked that he’d had to consider the cost. The sun felt warm on her shoulders and the whole place had a festive feel, with the colored pennants strung across the alleyway moving gently in the breeze. They came to the alleyway’s end and suddenly the Green was before them.

“Oh!” Gemma exclaimed. “How lovely!” They stood at the edge of a wide paved area, bordered by a narrow street, and beyond that, huge trees marked the edge of the wide, grassy expanse of the Green. People sat on benches or lay on blankets in the grass, and in the distance, Gemma saw a group playing a desultory lunchtime game of football.

“There’s The Prince’s Head, just here, and The Cricketers a bit further along,” said Butler, and Gemma realized they had come out of the alleyway right at the first pub.

“This looks fine, don’t you think?” The shadowy interior looked cool after the warmth of the sun, and Gemma realized suddenly that she was starving.

Since they were on the late side of lunch, they easily found a table in a front window where they could look out over the Green. Gemma perused the menu while Butler fetched drinks from the bar. When he returned, she took an unladylike gulp of her fizzy water with lime. The sun and too much coffee had ganged up to give her a terrible thirst and the beginnings of a headache.

“Non-alcoholic. Cheers,” said Butler, raising a half pint of beer to her. “It’s much better than it used to be.”

 “I’ll take your word for it,” Gemma told him. “Not much of a beer drinker.”

When they’d both ordered food at the bar, Gemma settled back into her seat and admired the view. “This is nice. Have you been here often?”

“Occasional nights out with the lads. A few dates. It’s a bit off my usual manor as well.”

“I should bring my husband here for a dinner date some night, assuming we ever manage to have a date.” Gemma sighed.

“It must be challenging. Both of you in the job, and three kids, you said?” Butler’s expression was open, friendly, and if he was digging, she’d given him the opening.

“We’re a blended bunch. His son, my son, and our foster daughter. We’ve finally given in and hired a part-time nanny, but I feel like a bloody yummy mummy even admitting to such a thing,” she added with a grin.

“Sounds right bougie,” Butler agreed, and they laughed. “You can just say ‘child minder.’ That removes a bit of the stigma.”

“Just don’t spread the ‘nanny’ word around at the nick,” Gemma said easily, thinking that she’d know soon enough if he did. She’d made her overture, but she wasn’t about to tell him any more of their personal details.

Butler nodded. “Right, boss.” After a moment’s hesitation, he began, “Your foster daughter—” but just then their food arrived and the moment was lost.

I haven't actually mentioned Ted Lasso, because it won't mean anything to non series fans, and also because I hope people will still be reading my books in some distant future when Ted Lasso will have faded into no more than a cultural footnote. (There was this show about ethics and kindness and good sportsmanship...)  But the references made me smile.

Readers, do you have favorite Easter eggs in books?

And in a totally unrelated question, how do you feel about exclamation points? I was taught in writing classes that you should never use them, but I think that's silly. Of course they can be overdone, but why waste a perfectly good punctuation mark? In this snippet, it seemed weird to end Gemma's exclamations with periods.

Oh, and a progress report: a couple of weeks ago I passed the 50,000 word mark in this manuscript, so I can now at least say that I am on the downslope!

P.S. By weird coincidence, I'd just started re-listening for the umpteenth time (don't judge, these books are my comfort listens) to the first Ben Aaronovitch Rivers of London book, published in 2011 although I didn't read it until a couple of years later. And there, at the beginning of Chapter 4, is my introduction to Richmond and Eel Pie Island. :-)

101 comments:

  1. Hhhmmm . . . now I'm wondering what Butler was about to say about Gemma's foster daughter . . . thanks for sharing this, Debs; I'm looking forward to reading the whole story!
    [And, yes, I do think exclamation points have a place in writing . . . .]

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  2. Congratulations on reaching the writing goal of 50 thousand words! The snippet from your book sounds intriguing! Now I want to read the book. Love the photos. I recognize some from the Ted Lasso show. I visited London and these places did not look familiar to me. I think I did Not have a chance to visit that part of London. Definitely plan to visit Richmond Green the next time I get a chance to visit London.

    There are many possibities regarding the question that Butler was going to ask about the foster daughter. Does Gemma suspect that Butler is bent? We will find out when we read the book, right?

    Regarding your question about exclamation points, I was reminded of a teacher at school who saw my written word then the exclamation points. She wanted to know WHY I wrote the exclamation points. She asked me to write a reason to support WHY I wrote the exclamation points.

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  3. I love that I'm going to learn about another part of London from Deborah Crombie, tour guide extraordinaire. I'm quite suspicious of Davey, in his quick personal questions. The excerpt was wonderful and makes me want the whole book right now. Oh, and I was a dedicated Ted Lasso fan, so I love the part about the pub and your picture there.

    I think there are times that an exclamation mark should be used, and Gemma's reaction to the green was genuinely enthusiastic and called for them. I'm trying to get away from using them too much in my responses on FB. I know I use them too much there.



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    1. Kathy, as a fan you will be delighted to know they have a fourth season coming!

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  4. Looking forward to the new book. And I love the Rivers of London series!

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    1. Always glad to find another Rivers of London fan! I think there is a new book coming this summer, yay!!!

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  5. I love this excerpt and am very excited to know that you have reached the 50,000 word mark. When I think of how long it takes you to weave your intricate stories, and the weekend it will take me to devour it, words fail me.

    Like Kathy, I am very happy to add Richmond to the Gemma and Duncan tour of London. I haven't seen Ted Lasso, but everyone loves it. We should find out what else Apple TV has to offer, subscribe for a month and binge watch them all.

    As for exclamation marks, I use them all the time. Noone told me not to, and social media calls for them. In my opinion, if you are writing exclamations, like, "How lovely!" no matter who taught you punctuation, an exclamation mark is the only way to go.

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    1. My husband and I have been planning to do just that. I know that in addition to Ted Lasso, Apple TV has the SLOW HORSES series based on Mick Herron's books. I have been lobbying to get Apple TV just long enough to binge those two.

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    2. We just picked up Apple again, and there are a lot of good things. We've only seen the first season of Slow Horses so are going to get back to that.

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    3. We just started Season 3 of Slow Horses last night. We watched the first two episodes, but I could’ve binged the whole season! They are very good adaptations of the books.

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    4. Oooh! Slow Horses is one of my all-time favorite series. And I totally broke my cardinal rule of watching a show/movie before reading the books but I still plan to read this series. I can’t get enough of it!

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    5. And the books are read by my terrific narrator, Gerard Doyle!

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  6. Poppycock! Exclamation points have a time and place for use just like any other punctuation mark. They do lose their impact with overuse, however.
    I always love when you share photos here to connect me to your books. Although I have heard of Ted Lasso, I have not seen it so any references to it in the book would be lost on me. Best to leave things out that won’t stand the test of time.

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  7. Oops that Poppycock comment was me.

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    1. "Poppycock" made me chuckle, Brenda. What a great expression--we should use it more often.

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  8. I'm so excited for a new book from you, Debs. And exclamation points, used sparingly in dialog, are fine with me.

    I love it when I slide an Easter egg into a book and a fan finds it.

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    1. What’s an Easter egg in a book ? I’ve never heard this expression.
      Danielle

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    2. Danielle, Debs referred to it in her post. She included places famous to Ted Lasso fans.

      In my stories, the great-grandmother of my Country Store protagonist is the late 1800s protagonist in my Quaker Midwife series. I'm sure others will have better examples.

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    3. Thank you Edith. If I understand correctly, it’s a kind of inside knowledge in reference to something. I knew the references in your exemples but I didn’t know it was called Easter egg.
      Danielle

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    4. DANIELLE: An Easter egg in a book (or TV show or movie) is a hidden image, message or reference.

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    5. I believe the phrase came from a pretty thing that is often overlooked = Easter Egg in real life.

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    6. Good explanations, Edith and Grace.

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    7. The Pixar movies have characters from a different Pixar movie appear (like a kid having a Buzz Lightyear doll on a shelf in a Monsters, Inc. movie) as Easter Eggs. — Pat S

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  9. Love the snippet Debs, so glad it's coming along! We must be the only people in America who didn't watch Ted Lasso:)

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    1. No Apple TV for us so we haven’t seen Ted Lasso either. A pit from everything my friends have said.

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    2. I haven't watched it yet either. Someday!

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    3. Never watched Ted Lasso & I had a free AppleTV trial 4 times!

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    4. I have to say Ted Lasso is one of the best shows on tv that I've watched. It is charming, with values something many shows seem to lack today. It has interesting characters - and an engaging plot each week. They deal with issues that affect people's lives in a serious way and have a lot of humor.

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    5. A good description, Anonymous. I think the show has a lot of things that we need more than ever!

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    6. My local library has a box set of DVDs of the first three seasons 😍 how lucky

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  10. I haven't watched Ted Lasso (just too many BPL games) and haven't visited Richmond...yet. I looked up Eel Island and it's only open a few days a year in maybe June. But it's on my radar. I'm suspicious of Davey's motives.

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    1. You can only see the artists studios on Eel Pie Island on two open weekends a year, and I just missed the July weekend when I was there in summer of '23. They released the date AFTER I'd booked my trip! However, you walk through the island any time, which I did several times.

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  11. I really hope Davey isn't a villain since I share his last name. I'm sure I use exclamation points almost every day when I comment here. So I'll say this: I can't wait to read this book!

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    1. Gillian, I am the queen of exclamation points here!!! But I use them very sparingly in my books. Davey is complicated, so we will see!

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  12. Why does it feel like I have been waiting for this book forever? The waiting is agony for readers, but maybe it is for writers, too! When I am aware of any Easter eggs I do enjoy them, feeling like an insider. In a previous post you had talked about eel pies and then at some point I was so proud of myself for spotting a huge sign in the background of a Ted Lasso episode. It was the episode with Rebecca and her goddaughter whose name I don't recall came out of a doll store and Roy was there with Phoebe and they all walked on together.

    As an aside, I wish there were a better way to describe the Ted Lasso show. I kept hearing how good it was and when I asked what it was about the answer I got did not make me want to see it. But now after watching the entire series several times, and owning the DVDs, I encourage other people to watch, people I am sure will love it (and Roy) as much as I do. They ask what it is about and I try to tell them, but they make a face and say, nah, I don't think that's my kind of thing. Maybe if I told them about all the times the F word was used they might change their minds.

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    1. You're so right, Judi. By the end of episode 1, you know that this show is not going to be just funny. It's complicated, with so many rich and complex characters, and it is about so much more than the fish-out-of-water, American football coach in the UK. You could maybe say that it's about values and friendship and hope, all things that most of us could use a little more of these days. I have actually never rewatched it, but I pulled up Episode 1, season 1 last night, and it was like meeting old friends.

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  13. DEBS: Despite never visiting Richmond IRL, I can easily visualize this scene at the pub overlooking the Richmond Green.
    I suppose some people overuse exclamation marks but your use in this snippet is fine.

    As for Davey Butler, I hope that Gemma does not have a new DS who will cause problems!

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    1. Problems are what makes plot, Grace!!!

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    2. Love your response, Debs! (Exclamation point intended) — Pat S

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  14. I think I made this recipe, though, which has better directions: https://www.jessicagavin.com/ted-lasso-biscuits/ There are also lots of places to get directions on how to make the pink boxes, if you're really ambitious.

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  15. Debs, your pictures are beautiful and I love your snippet. I’m so glad your book is coming along and I’m so looking forward to reading it.
    I’m for a good exclamation point. It accentuates what has been said in a nice way.
    Danielle

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  16. High five, Debs!! That's exciting news to know you're inching along with the plot. (And I'll use as many exclamation points as I want!). As always, I'm transported to place in any scene you write. Can't wait to read what came before this scene--why Gemma's being so watchful around her new DS. And I miss Duncan and want to catch up on the news--how're all the kids doing? And Doug and Melody and and and.... I think we talked once about Easter eggs in books--in your books, I love it when you slip in a remark with characters we've loved from previous books, for example.

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    1. So frustrating not to be able to get in all the favorite characters in every book! Davey Butler is complicated. If Gemma is suspicious of him, he has reasons to be suspicious of her, too.

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    2. Just what I would expect from your books--no one-dimensional characters!

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  17. Eagerly awaiting this book and looking forward to learning all about Davey. I've been reading your series since its early days, when I used to borrow them on CD from the library. They are always worth the wait.

    I would hate to see the exclamation point fade from use. Sure, it's overused sometimes, especially in social media. But when used sparingly, it adds depth. (Or if judiciously overused, can signal vacuuity.)

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    1. Ooh, and I meant to add: I just found Ben Aaronovitch's series last year, so I am still making my way through them. They are delightful!

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    2. I think I know Ben's books about as well as my own! There is no description of them that does them justice, but I can read (or listen) to them over and over and I am always inspired.

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  18. Perhaps punctuation was the for runner of emoticons. I think they can now serve as a cultural mark for future bibliophiles to determine age of the writer or time of the writing. At the moment we currently have symbols for stopping a thought, for a uncertain thought, for and enthusiastic thought, and finally for connecting thoughts. Punctuation is a shortcut to assist the reader's mind with the intent of the author. Yay! Coraleesplaining is BACK!! see? (she always does go off topic.)see example?

    Back to Gemma at Richmond. TIL Richmond is a district in London. What I love about this passage, as I don't know about Ted Lasso is the colloquial speech patterns. Are women still referred to as "birds". Ew. Not sure I like Master Butler.

    50,000 words = about 200 pages. I sure hope you can wrap it up around 80,000 words . Four hundred page books are too heavy for me to hold these days. But hold it I will if that is the case Gemma and Duncan demand attention. Thanks for sharing.

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    1. I would be very surprised if this book, at least in first draft, didn't hit 100,000 words. But I'm also sure it will be cut, and I imagine the finished book will be under 400 pages.

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    2. well no wonder it takes you longer to finish a rough draft :D

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  19. I realized when I reread this snippet this morning that I didn't actually get to the bit where Gemma eats the fish finger sandwich with the triple cooked chips! (Exclamation point!) So you will have to wait and see if she likes the food.

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  20. Thank you for this lovely calming piece brining back memories. John’s family lived on Richmond Hill when I first met them. Richmond still that it’s not part of London

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    1. I didn't know that, Rhys! It's such a lovely town, isn't it? And so easy to get to from London, last stop on the west end of the District Line. If you want to go to Twickenham and Teddington, you have to resort to the bus.

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  21. Ooooh, I love these pictures so much. I'm hoping to be in London for research this year and I can't wait. Love your excerpt. Also, I heard Ted Lasso is coming back!

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  22. Oh, what fun! I think I will make these this weekend. (I read the second recipe.) I have Kerrygold unsalted butter, as that is our regular butter. No interest in making the pink boxes, though! Thanks so much for the recipes, Karen!

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  23. Karen, I went down a Ted Lasso rabbit hole after I read your comment. I could only find that some of the cast have been signed and they may begin filming soon.

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  24. Debs, Now I’ve added Richmond to my places I want to visit. And London again (we’ll be in London for 3 days in May-a year wouldn’t be enough time!) I’ll preorder this book from one of my local independent bookstores as soon as you tell it’s ready! I do love the Easter eggs, even if I miss many. I’ve following the relationship of Emma and Duncan along its journey.

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    1. Oh, I am so jealous of your three days, Suzette. And in May! (That deserves the exclamation mark.) I am missing London desperately.

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    2. Exclamation points welcome! It’s my first time back since 1990! and my husband’s first time ever!

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  25. Can't wait for the book, this scene is delightful. I'm completely unfamiliar with Ted Lasso, but might have to change that. As for exclamation marks, they have their place. As you say, why ignore their existence!

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    1. Ted Lasso won something like dozens of Emmys during its three season run. Worth trying Apple TV for a month just to binge!

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  26. Excellent snippet, Debs.

    As for exclamation marks, they have their place, just like any other punctuation mark. But yeah, I try not to overuse them.

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  27. You are so amazing—how do you totally write like another person? So seamlessly a Brit? I think it’s astonishing.
    Exclamation marks— I think it’s often so much better if you take them out. Truly. Except when someone says something like Ow!
    I sort of give myself one per book. And take them out whenever possible. Too many of them, and by that I mean three, often looks amateurish. To me. In my books at least. And in manuscripts I read. Like… Why are you telling me how to read this? Why don’t you just show me how an exclamation mark feels?

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    1. Now I'm going to be counting my exclamation marks, Hank! Hmm, have I used any before this...

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  28. A new Rivers of London book? Hot dog! I have no quarrel with exclamation points. Bring them on as needed. I've heard nothing but good things about Ted Lasso. We don't have Apple and I don't see us getting it any time soon. I love Easter eggs in books. It adds just a teeny bit more pleasure to a story.

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    1. The title of the new Rivers of London is STONE AND SKY. Release is July 8th.

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  29. This little snippet has me so excited for Book 20! I’m going to have to begin another Duncan/Gemma re-read soon, so I’m good and primed for it when it comes out. And knowing that I will never get to London, Debs, I am so grateful for the way you take me there. Your books have piqued my curiousity about so many things. Gorgeous photos too.
    I love Ted Lasso for many things, but mostly for its heart. These are real people, dealing with real problems, and Ted himself is a good man in a complicated world, being himself and letting that be good enough. And it makes us laugh, which is always a good thing. And I’m a little in love with that potty-mouth Roy.
    Exclamation points? Definitely!

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    1. Oh, Roy. How can you not love Roy Kent? What an absolutely terrific character he is. As are they all.

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  30. I'm so happy to hear you are working on the next Duncan/Gemma series. I've read all the other ones and am really looking forward to the next one.
    Thanks for mentioning the Rivers of London series. I've only read the first 1 and the really enjoyed it. It's time to start reading the rest of the series.
    I have no problems with ! as they serve a purpose.

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  31. Thanks for the clarification, Debs. I was sure I'd seen that they'd already done so, but I'm slept since then, as they say.

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  32. I haven’t yet finished watching Ted Lasso, having put it aside to watch other things. Now I can’t wait to get back to it! (And I like exclamation points if they’re not overused!)
    I’ve been pleased with my Apple TV subscription. Whenever I consider giving it up, they come up with something else that I fall in love either,

    DebRo

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    1. “Fall in love with”. For some reason, , AutoIncorrect nearly always changes “with” to “either”.

      DebRo

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  33. I was so pleased to read the snippet from the new book. It’s like catching up with old friends. I have seven books pre-ordered that will be coming sometime between February and September. The new book in September is by Anne Cleves. It’s a new book about Jimmy Perez so I’m looking forward to reading that. I hope to add your new book to my pre-ordered list soon. As far as exclamation points, I use them sparingly.

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  34. Oh Deb, please let me live long enough for your next book. You know, green bananas and all that. I don’t give a flying ef how many ❗️ points you use ❗️

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  35. I, too, am excited for another Duncan/Gemma book, but I know that you will finish it at your own pace and it will be worth the wait. I’m a fan of Easter Eggs in books and movies, but probably miss more than I catch. And I like exclamation points. I believe that people (myself included) overuse them in social media posts, but think they are probably more effective in “writing” if used sparingly. And because Hank’s books are a completely different animal than yours, I think she’s right to limit her use of exclamation points. You have kids in your books with all the chaos that implies so certainly they merit an exclamation point or two! — Pat S

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  36. Loved the snippet! (Exclamation point intended because I'm excited!) I think exclamation points are important in some instances. I will say that there is one writer that drives me crazy when her characters seem to be exclaiming everything that comes out of their mouths. I tried to envision a conversation with that character and decided it would be like talking to someone on speed (or whatever it is called today) which would be exhausting to endure. And I love the Rivers of London series. Nothing silly about binging on books that bring you solace or help you to relax and refocus. -- Victoria

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  37. I for one love Easter Eggs in books and movies - it adds a little “something”. Regarding exclamation points, there is a time and place for them. It helps the reader share in the emotion the character feels. I haven’t watched Ted Lasso yet but have just booked a trip to London and now have a new area to add to my itinerary.

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  38. I loved reading this excerpt and am eager to read the book when it arrives.

    I understand the hesitation over exclamation points... in writing books they are frowned upon. I myself think that's silly. Some people exclaim, and deserve their mark. If I were reading the terse dialogue of Harry Bosch, I would not expect an exclamation point. If I were reading the dialogue of Keely Jones in Ted Lasso, I might expect exclamation points. Do whatever feels right to you! (Selden, exclaiming)

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  39. Oh awesome Just realized think I was in a lock in in that pub week of millennial new years - never made that connection watching TL

    So excited that you're far enough along to share a snippet - can only wait because I have to

    Also how can you not love a punctuation mark called a bang in the UK???

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    1. A lock-in at The Princes's Head?? What fun!!!

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    2. It was totally fun &:a pretty warm Christmas holiday ... I was pretty young & there with friends & BF ... generally a good time

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    3. Oh damn! I used pretty twice in close proximity 😐

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  40. A BANG? Really?!? How great. I think they're fine, used judiciously.

    Debs your scene descriptions invariably send me looking for my passport and googling UK destinations.

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  41. Enticing snippet of course! And I will learn about Ted’s area of London area.
    Ben Aaronovitch is a favorite escape of mine. I have not read all of the Rivers of London series but enjoy the delightful dive into chaos, humor and mystery. (Heather S)

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    1. You have time to catch up before his new book in July!

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  42. Sorry I'm so late--yesterday, there was too much going on. Congratulations on 50,000 words and on an excerpt that made me long to keep reading! I don't think I have any Easter eggs (I learned that just now), but the Bernese who read my books tell me they love recognizing all the places I refer to as Giuliana and Renzo bike or walk around the city. In my opinion, if Gemma exclaims, "How lovely!" it has to be followed by an exclamation point.

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  43. The snippet was a delight to read. I only just recently read A Killing of Innocents ... I made myself wait awhile as I knew it would be awhile until your next book comes out. Do you have an estimated date for publishing #20? Possibly 2026? 2027?

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