RHYS BOWEN: I’m currently writing an article on secondary characters. My examples are all from Harry Potter because I think that JK Rowling has created the most fleshed out, real and rounded subsidiary characters ever. She has peopled a whole world. Think of the Dursleys, Neville Longbottom, Sirius Black, Lucius Malfoy… so vivid, so completely real.
For us lesser mortals it’s sometimes a strain to come up with characters who come across as real when we can only describe them in a few lines. Luckily we’ve all had encounters in our lives with people who are Characters with capital C. The ones that stick with us. I was thinking the other day about my succession of cleaning ladies. Starting with my mother’s house when I was growing up Mrs. Broad was a beefy country woman. She thought nothing of pulling out the clothes wardrobe to clean behind it. She also loved to pun and tell dirty jokes with this big, throaty laugh.
Our first cleaning woman was Marilyn. What a character she was. A middle aged white woman, lpermed hair, lots of make-up, living in a house nicer than mine. She cleaned houses because her husband kept her short of money, AND would not allow her to work. So I was supposed to be a friend she was going to visit. Eventually she divorced him and married someone richer and nicer, in fact they went first class to England at the same time we were flying coach!
She was one of those brassy, tough blondes, having had a rough childhood and then a rougher marriage. She was a terrific cleaner but she loved to talk. I’d be sitting at my typewriter (in those days) and she’d appear in my doorway telling me all the gossip she had acquired during the week. She also had the most wonderful malapropisms. When I said I’d been to a bah mitzvah she said she loved the part where they carried the torah, torah, torah.
And my favorite was when she said, “I told her she was not bringing that illiterate child here.” She meant illegitimate.
Her one fault was she loved doing laundry and when it was dry she’d put it in the drawers where she felt it should go. Usually this was the wrong child’s bedroom, always resulting in raised tempers. “Why are you wearing my shirt?” “It was in my drawer.”
I haven’t put her in a book yet but I still might. But other real life characters I have used: Granddad in the Royal Spyness books, based on my own father. From humble beginnings and a sweet-natured gentle man.
I’ve used my headmistress from school in several books as she was such a mean spirited cow. I’ve made her a butler, a nun and goodness knows what else. I'm wondering if I ever killed her off. I hope so.
So which real life characters have you incorporated into your novels?
LUCY BURDETTE: Oh I love those cleaning lady stories Rhys! Maybe it’s a requirement that a cleaning lady be a big character? Certainly ours have been. They, by nature of the job, have access to personal details that no one else would…
I borrow all kinds of secondary characters from real life in Key West. Lorenzo is based on a real tarot-card reading guy who you can find every night at the sunset celebration on Mallory Square. Eric is based on my real friend, a clinical psychologist who’s since moved away from the island. As you say though, Rhys, it’s hard to develop the secondary characters when new ones must move into the series to keep things fresh. I pay attention to what readers seem to want (more Miss Gloria! More Lorenzo!), but also who hasn’t been seen in an installment lately.
JENN McKINLAY: I killed off the Hub’s odious boss in my very first mystery. That was fun! I made my own stalker the bad guy in one of my books - very cathartic! And I use bits and bobs of people I like to flesh out my protagonists so one character has my friend Diana’s amazing hair and another friend is a gifted children’s librarian so I used her skills for that character., It’s a good thing people are so interesting, yes?
HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: I totally steer away from taking a whole person, but I sneak in their names from time to time. A few of my horrible bosses (with more delight than is probably appropriate and admissible), a few of Jonathan’s court nemesis types, a judge or two. A disappointing boyfriend. It’s my little secret, and I will deny it forever.
DEBORAH CROMBIE: I plead the fifth on the real people I have happily killed off in my books! I based the character of Penny in my first book on my lovely grandmother, but I've mostly stayed away from "borrowing" people I know in real life–although if I'd come across characters as eccentric as Rhys's cleaning ladies, I would be tempted!
HALLIE EPHRON: In my five books featuring forensic neuropsychologist Dr. Peter Zak, the character is based on my co-author (Dr. Donald Davidoff) who IS a forensic neuropsychologist. We had plenty of arguments about what the “fictional” Dr. Zak would drive. Eat. Wear.
I bumped off a character based on my father in my standalone NIGHT NIGHT, SLEEP TIGHT. Very satisfying. And the “sidekick” character in that book is based on memories of a dear best friend from junior high with whom I’ve sadly lost touch. I’d hoped she’d reach out (and I tried to find her on Facebook) when the book came out, but no success. I hope she’d be okay with what I wrote.
RHYS: I also use real life people in my books--the royal family in the Spyness books, and various historical figures in Molly Murphy. But with these I try to be as accurate as possible. I can't have fun with them... or in the case of Mrs. Simpson, not too much fun!
So who has a good cleaning lady character to share? Another person who belongs in a book
I love these stories, Rhys, and the cleaning lady tales are terrific. Alas, no cleaning lady characters here . . . but I did once have a supervisor who would always be annoyed with me because I didn't recognize people and call them by name when they were all the way down the hall. [Never mind that my poor eyes could hardly even see them that far away . . . .]
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, Joan. I’m not that good at remembering names but that’s a different issue
DeleteI love side characters and am always awed by how a skillful writer can conjure them in a few lines. Many of the most engaging characters I've known personally have been blue collar workers I've hired to run heavy machinery on my farm, a treat I would save up for all year. I used to write down some of our conversations so I could remember the speech patterns, which intrigued me. (As a teacher who often worked with dyslexic students, I soon realized that the "f*ckin's" and worse that littered all their talk were usually quick fill-ins to disguise issues with word retrieval. An expletive can take the place of an adjective, verb, or noun!)
ReplyDeleteOnce there was a logging crew. I brought them out some homemade cookies, and as we chatted the men told me the youngest man with them was Russian. "We call him OSHA." "His name is OSHA?" "No, but his his real name is too f*ckin' hard." Later I asked the blond young man his name. "Alexei," he said shyly. My favorite man ever was a retired excavator operator, short and stocky in worn blue Dickies. We worked together one week a year for several summers, and though Allen was a man of few words, he taught me a lot. "You ain't REALLY dumb," he once said in encouragement. Another time we stood planning how the next steps of a project would unfold, what he would dig and what I would do. After tersely listing each step, he looked at me from under his bushy white eyebrows and said, "Cabbage?" Finally the penny dropped: "Allen, are you saying capisce?" He beamed. "Sure, cabbage!" (Selden)
what a wonderful character Selden!
DeleteThese are great stories. I’m waiting for the farm book!
DeleteWonderful.
DeleteIf I used f*ckin’ when I have trouble with word retrieval, I would have a real potty mouth! — Pat S
DeleteWhat great stories and characters, Selden!!
DeleteOh, Jenn, snorted coffee thinking of characters composed of “bits and bobs”. Thank you for the smile. Elisabeth
ReplyDeleteI love all these stories. My police lieutenant (now chief) Buck in the Country Store series talks like a man I taught in grad school. That Buck was a forty-something undergrad - he'd retired from the army and had never gone to college, so he was doing it then. When he spoke he didn't move his tongue from the bottom of his mouth, which made for very down-homey speech.
ReplyDeleteI've used the most unpleasant parts of my unpleasant ex-husband in several characters. I made my late mom a character in an assisted living facility. My Quaker midwife is modeled on one of the midwives for my first son's birth - tall, calming, caring. Peggy has read all the books and loves them.
No colorful cleaning ladies, though.
Like Rhys, I've also included famous real people, and do my best to be as accurate as possible with characters like a young Amelia Earhart and an elderly John Greenleaf Whittier.
DeleteI miss your Quaker midwife, Edith
DeleteI loved your Quaker Midwife. I have all of the books in the series.
DeleteI love the cleaning woman stories! They really do deserve to be in a story/novel. We have a cleaning woman here for the first time ever, and she's a dear. She leaves the apartment spotless every two weeks, loves to iron, and even does windows! But I couldn't possibly put her in a story, because she's too sweet. I did put a mean supervisor of children from my childhood in my middle grade Victorian era mystery as a mean governess. And yes, very satisfying.
ReplyDeleteShe loves to iron?? Send her my way
DeleteFrom Celia: when she's finished Rhys ironing please send her on to me. I have the napkins from Thanksgiving, large white linen English, sitting on
DeleteMy ironing board now. My mother once commented on her bi yearly US visit that there were still the same items in the bottom of my ironing basket that she had not gotten to on her previous visit. My mother was an Olympic medaler with an iron.
Does anyone still iron these days?
DeleteI iron, Diana, and I love my ironing days! Put on that film or that very naughty novel (audiobook) and iron. Good days!
DeleteDiana, yes, but like Celia’s linen napkins, mine sit for awhile before I get to them! — Pat S
DeleteI too love ironing, though I rarely do it any more. Once upon a time I ironed my husband's shirt and pants for work every morning (and packed him lunch and a thermos of tea). I always think of mowing as "ironing" the fields. Smoothing everything. Such a satisfying feeling. (Selden)
DeleteCoincidentally, just the other day I ironed a big stack of napkins from the last six months of holiday and other celebrations.
DeleteRhys, I love these stories! I think there is a definite talent to bringing secondary characters to life. You have mentioned before that Georgie's beloved grandfather is based on your own father. He is my favorite secondary character in that series, after Darcy (sigh.) I agree that Rowling created some of the most exceptionally unique characters ever.
ReplyDeleteDebs, I think that your secondary and tertiary characters are terrific. I would have thought that some of them were inspired by real people. I realize that it is dangerous to do that, especially , if like Jenn, you kill them off.
My dad was a keen observer of traits, accents and mannerisms. He was a terrific story teller and I wish I had his talent for copying accents and reenacting conversations with the characters he met daily. He could do a fair imitation of relatives, too. At family gatherings, he'd have us in stitches.
My grandfather was like your dad - amazing with accents and storytelling. I wish I had the ear and ability to imitate people like that.
DeleteJohn’s father was a great storyteller. He’d keep everyone enthralled at the dinner table. But we bought him a tape recorder to keep some of his stories and immediately he became dry and pedantic
DeletePerhaps stage fright?
DeleteRhys, the Jewish Historical Society here researched the early twentieth Century Jewish farmers of Connecticut and interviewed my dad. They recorded him and published a book in which his stories, and those of several other people who had knowledge of that era, are featured. It's lovely to have.
DeleteThank you, Judy! I think that characters are probably drawn from a subconsious well of people we've known, whether we realize it or not!
DeleteThese stories are great. thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteHallie, where did you go to junior high?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, whoever you are, I hope you will read my upcoming book ALL THIS COULD BE YOURS—and Hallie, you too— and you will see why this question is so chilling to me .
Deleteabout mistaken identity?
DeleteProbably something more ominou!.
DeleteHallie, I was up way past midnight the other night trying to find a couple of college friends. I started with Facebook, moved onto whitepages.com (which, pre-cell phones was a good resource. Now, not so much) and finally stumbled upon truepeoplesearch.com I think I have found both of them. Give it a try! (And yes to anyone who finds it scary how easy it was to find someone, I wholeheartedly agree.) And Hank, your comment gave me shivers! —Pat S
DeleteFun topic! I've always wanted to use the vehicle of story to "kill off" one or two of my nemeses, but it's probably healthier just to forgive them their trespasses. For me, anyway. Your mileage may vary, and thank goodness!
ReplyDeleteI've only had a "cleaning lady" a few times. When my middle daughter was small and my husband traveled six months of the year, his cousin cleaned for us every two weeks for a year because I had my own business that required 50-60 hours a week. About ten years ago, I hired someone to clean, thinking I could have my version of "retirement". The first time they completely skipped cleaning the bathtub. Okay, I'll clean it myself, dammit. The second time, two weeks later, it was the same two women, and they also did not clean the bathtub. I called and canceled. That was my main reason for hiring them! Why bother paying someone if they aren't going to clean the tub? That's basic, isn't it? One of these days I might have to hire someone again, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Feel free to use this compound character, and kill her off, if you want.
It’s not always easy to find a good one, Karen. We’ve been through a lot of duds! One spent the whole morning cleaning one shower ( which wasn’t dirty to start with) and used a whole roll of paper towel on it. Our present one is a great friend
DeleteThe thing is, this company was highly recommended by a friend who had used them for years. So I was not expecting such terrible service.
DeleteKaren in Ohio, was the "cleaning lady" similar to the cleaning lady character from Midsomer Murders (I think the first season first episode) ?
DeleteKaren, I found my current cleaner (“cleaning lady” just seems wrong to my feminist soul. Men can clean too!) through Task Rabbit. The first one I tried from the Rabbit was a dud…did not clean my tub. But since I hired her for just the one task, no messy firing. The present cleaner was the second I hired through Task Rabbit and we’re going on four years! Just as I used the service to screen cleaners without committing, she does the same with employers. Also Task Rabbit security screens and handles all scheduling. Elisabeth
DeleteSorry to have strayed so far off topic with hiring advice. I’m just in need of any good news that I can share. Elisabeth
DeleteGood to know, Elisabeth! Thank you.
DeleteGood to know about task rabbit. Thank you!
DeleteA writer's skill in bringing secondary characters to life is one of the reasons I'll come back to their books over and over again. And if the writer has based those characters in part or wholly upon real people, fine with me! I wrote a fictional novella, drawn in part from my family's history. One character was based on a particular person--who was remembered fondly by some family members and yet excoriated by others.
ReplyDeleteI love when a side character is so well rounded out that they are completely real. Louise Penny does so well with Ruth, and Gabri and Olivier who are real people, not a mockery of a cartoon character. I think I fell in love with her books, because I lived in an area where what could be the real people reside and were my friends.
ReplyDeleteAs for a cleaning woman – we never had one, but my grandmother next door did. Daisy came to clean once a week – my grandmother had ‘headaches’. Sometimes she came more frequently as required (spring cleaning), and she did all the painting and wall-papering! Daisy was thin, always wore a hat inside, and lived with her husband in a barely heated abode – hard to call it a house. However, Daisy was proud and held her head high. She and two other ladies would dust off their tired wool coats, put on their boots, and their hats (same one as she wore cleaning), and together, arm in arm they walked down the street and attended every church service, no matter who it affected. They took the back seat each time and would blubber through every funeral – loudly. They attended every baptism – blubbering at the beautiful baby, and I was pleased to see them, dressed as usual to the nines (no hats, it was a kerchief around the head this time), as they took the back pew on the bride’s side, of course, at our wedding. They blubbered.
I agree about Louise Penny, but in her most recent book I thought she came close to reducing those wonderful side characters to cartoon characters. It felt like she was so focused on her primary story she didn't have time to give them their due. I strongly hope we see them back in their fully fleshed-out form in the next one!
DeleteWhat a great story, Margo. They belong in a book!
DeleteSusan, I agree with your conclusions concerning the secondary characters. It began after book # 15, and has progressed in each subsequent book she has written.
DeleteI agree as well, and wish she would get over herself. The 'I forget the word right now' poet gets redundant over and over again. However, I will still go back to her books.
DeleteI haven't read the later books. I felt the decline after the fabulous (for me) HOW THE LIGHT GETS IN. I persevered through 16 but then gave up. Still, I am grateful to her for about ten captivating books and inventing a world I still love to go back to visit in rereading. Who can claim as much? (Selden)
DeleteI honestly don't think Louise Penny is capable of "bad" writing. But she has shifted the tone of her books somewhat, and I enjoyed the earlier tone better. I will probably still read each of her books eagerly as they arrive, though, because consistent quality such as hers is a rare gift.
DeleteGreat topic! There are lots of characters around. I worked with a woman I'll call DQ at 9-1-1 who created a lot of drama wherever she went. She loved to flirt and dress provocatively. When I was a union rep, we defended her with what we called the 'cleavage grievance'. She was very well endowed (had a license plate proclaiming her bra size) and had worn a top with a scoop neck that didn't show everything, but, well you can imagine. A coworker complained. Another woman (lovely in face, form and personality) actually had the same top. Our union position was that DQ was being singled out for her size. It all went away. There was another complaint about DQ and a short skirt and lack of appropriate undergarments. Her response was to wear a thong as a hair bow. DQ eventually stormed out of a disciplinary meeting (about work performance, not clothing) saying she quit. Management, being smart in this one instance, wrote her a letter saying they accepted her resignation. She tried to get her job back, but the City's position was upheld.
ReplyDeleteShe sounds like a riot, Gillian! Especially the license plate. So subtle.
DeleteGillian! A thong as a hair bow! What a character. She sounds like the Julia Roberts character in ERIN BROCKOVICH. (Selden)
DeleteI have a dear long-term friend who would make a great side character. She is an intelligent and very capable woman who often works in the tech industry to support herself. But her passion is in the more airy-fairy self-improvement, inspiration, be-all-you-can-be world and she has an ongoing practice as a life coach. She is also a serial marrier. I beieve we are at 4 ex-husbands now, and that doesn't count a long-term relationship that never came to marriage because she disciplined herself to not legally divorce husband number 3 for several years so she wouldn't be tempted to marry again. She is an absolute delight to be around and I believe she genuinely helps a lot of people in her life coaching practice, but her own personal life is almost always a mess!
ReplyDeleteI don’t think I’d go to her for marriage coaching !
Deletedefinitely not for marriage coaching.
DeleteLUCY I notice from reading the Acknowledgements that you have a lot (more than Lorenzo and Eric) of Key West locals who appear in your books by their real names and personalities. They must enjoy seeing their names in print. I love that! Is Miss Gloria based on someone who lives in KW?
ReplyDeleteJENN is your children's library friend the one in the library series? I love her character! She's definitely one of my favorites. And what about the librarian who wears matching colored outfits? She is a hoot!
Some of these comments are making me remember several bigger-than-life women I've known or worked with. Tall, full-figured, lots of makeup and stylish women's clothing, big voices, and big hair to match their big hearts. I wrote one into one of my series as a high-powered lawyer, and repurposed her as the mayor in a different series.
ReplyDeleteOne of my girlfriends is a true character, outrageous in every way. I could never write about her, though, because everyone we know would twig to her identity instantly.
DeleteSame here, Karen!!
DeleteLove the stories. I have never taken a character whole from my life. Usually just a characteristic or two here and there.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, I lied. I did bump off a man who had been particularly horrid to me as a volunteer - but I changed him into a woman and completely altered all the physical features. But it was his personality, 100%. So cathartic.
It is so satisfying , isn’t it?
DeleteEven, or maybe especially, if you are the only one who knows!
DeleteThese examples are so funny. When I sat down to write my first WIP, I was leaning towards "women fiction" (think chick flick in a book)...Well, it was Mother's Day and ALL I asked for was the afternoon to work on the WIP. Just leave me be for awhile...well, for whatever reason, my husband was on the warpath with the kids...Lots of noise and kids complaining to me...husband complaining to me...so I got mad...and I killed him...the husband...in my WIP. Which is why I am now writing "murder" mysteries.
ReplyDeletethe LOML
ReplyDeletewhoops! My little cat poked her chin onto my hand before I finished my comment! I was going to say that my sweetheart was such a wonderful, generous man. There was another artist in the same building who just couldn't accept Tim's popularity. He was forever grousing, and trying to undercut Tim's natural leadership role. So, of course, I had to kill him in my first mystery!
DeleteLove your stories about the cleaning ladies, Rhys! I wonder if your Queenie was based on the cleaning lady who misplaced your children's clothes. No cleaning lady story since we never had one.
ReplyDeleteReminded of a friend remarking about a mutual friend that "he is quite a character" because he was bigger than life. He could be very dramatic, which was quite fitting, since he was a professional actor. Some actors are Shy in real life though this fellow was definitely Not shy.
As I am writing, I refer to my notes about characters from my writing class and work on developing the characters. Important to remember that humans have many facets to their personalities. Some are consistent. Some are not. Some will show the same face to everyone. Some will show different faces to different people. Look at how they treat people they are important and how they treat people they think are Not important.
When I was growing up, we had a lady who came in and did the ironing. Her name was Marybelle, and she loved to tell tales, to the my brother and me. Well, my mother found out that she was telling us scary stories, so that was the end of that fun, well almost. I'm not sure that Marybelle didn't still tell us a thriller or two.
ReplyDeleteI am taking copious notes!!! Thanks, everyone!
ReplyDelete